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Post by julienbakerfan on May 27, 2020 21:53:36 GMT -6
I find it very curious that some of the people I miss the MOST during all this Covid BS are people I am on the “opposite side of the fence” from philosophically, politically, and religiously..... I have missed a lot of these people as well. See my above post about the DIY music scene.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jun 2, 2020 20:44:00 GMT -6
I'm glad for the opportunity to bring a lot of underground music to light, but it's always kind of bothered me that there aren't more people doing it - in the Christian or secular scene.
Granted, the problem seems to be a lot bigger in the Christian black metal scene. Despite having 500+ projects in the scene, and despite me publishing an entire 700+ page website about them and running a YouTube channel about them, it seems the ONLY ones most people know of are Antestor, Crimson Moonlight, Slechtvalk, Vials of Wrath.
... But the problem has always existed in the secular scene, too. Granted in those cases, you do have a bunch of YouTube channels that specialize in old 80s metal demos; old black metal demos; things like that, but so many quality things still slip through the cracks. How do you think I got over 100,000 views on ItsNickJx before I deleted all the secular videos? While I don't support the vast majority of those old bands anymore, you have to remember I was often specifically looking for dark, occult music. And even then, a lot of Christians don't mind things like that. And even then, there are tons and tons of metal bands that aren't, and weren't, malevolent toward the Christian faith, and can often be appreciated on a purely "entertainment" level. (This seems to be particularly true with power metal and progressive metal.)
In both cases it's such a shame to hear music that the musicians were clearly really passionate about, but never got noticed by anyone just for the fact that it wasn't some "big name" in its respective scene. I don't understand that mindset. Of course some things are bound to get buried just by virtue of how much music is out there in the world - keep in mind I'm only talking about metal, not anything else like reggae, dubstep, polka, ........... but the amount of things that get buried, is much higher than it ever needs to be.
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Post by Deepfriar on Jun 3, 2020 20:06:18 GMT -6
Extreme metal in general is losing fan base I fear and I'm not sure what to do except maybe breed... Last year, my newborn daughter's first music she heard in the hospital after she was born was Antestor - The Forsaken.. I'm trying to do my part..
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jun 3, 2020 22:42:37 GMT -6
Extreme metal in general is losing fan base How do you figure?
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Post by julienbakerfan on Jun 9, 2020 22:04:23 GMT -6
I used to be very much into metal with screaming vocals. Lately I've only wanted to listen to metal with clean vocals. Saxon, Judas Priest, Atlantean Kodex, and other epic stuff. Not sure why.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jun 10, 2020 11:13:35 GMT -6
Lately I've only wanted to listen to metal with clean vocals. Saxon, Judas Priest, Atlantean Kodex, and other epic stuff. Not sure why. Sometimes I just want to listen to specific styles of music. Not sure if there's a reason. Like recently I've been listening to more "progressive" metal. Not always strictly "progressive metal" in the sense of like Dream Theater (though I have listened to some music like that), but at the very least... say, I've been listening to Panegyrist instead of Reverorum ib Malacht, you know? Also been listening to more doom/death. Eventually I always come back to black metal / blacknoise / blackgrind / etc. At this moment, for example, I'm listening to one of Michael Mosher's safe-secular projects Razorwind.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jun 10, 2020 13:40:38 GMT -6
I'm glad for the opportunity to bring a lot of underground music to light, but it's always kind of bothered me that there aren't more people doing it - in the Christian or secular scene. Granted, the problem seems to be a lot bigger in the Christian black metal scene. Despite having 500+ projects in the scene, and despite me publishing an entire 700+ page website about them and running a YouTube channel about them, it seems the ONLY ones most people know of are Antestor, Crimson Moonlight, Slechtvalk, Vials of Wrath. Its a bit of a paradox, I think. If you bring underground music out of the underground, its no longer underground. (so if the artists want to be underground, "getting noticed" can take something away from that) ... But the problem has always existed in the secular scene, too. Christians when asked what they think of black metal: Non-Christian when asked what they think of black metal: "Hey, I listen to black metal! Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Ozzy Osborne, Led Zeplin..."
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jun 10, 2020 13:42:02 GMT -6
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Post by julienbakerfan on Jun 10, 2020 14:30:30 GMT -6
Wow. Just wow. Only in Seattle.
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Post by julienbakerfan on Jun 10, 2020 14:32:22 GMT -6
Non-Christian when asked what they think of black metal: "Hey, I listen to black metal! Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Ozzy Osborne, Led Zeplin..." I was expecting something more along the lines of Living Colour. I've been listening to Panegyrist I wish Elijah Tammu would record another album. I really like Hierurgy and need to give it another listen.
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Post by barabbas on Jun 10, 2020 15:53:26 GMT -6
Those Seattle images made me laugh. Thanks! I have quite a bit of familiarity with that part of the world. Turns out: we need other people to help us survive. Producing one's own food in the middle of a city is difficult. Who would've thought!
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Post by Deepfriar on Jun 12, 2020 23:10:24 GMT -6
Extreme metal in general is losing fan base How do you figure? I guess it just feels to me like heavy metal in general has less and less people actively engaged in fandom over the past several years which in turn makes me think the extreme metal community is also shrinking. However, your question prompted me to search some articles and supposedly heavy metal was the fastest growing genre in 2018. Perhaps I was mistaken! We need that kind of growth in the underground Christian metal community lol.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jun 25, 2020 10:22:53 GMT -6
A question for you bros. Have you thought about confirmation bias in regards to your theology? I'm not talking about faith vs no-faith... but the other beliefs you have (the doctrine) that forms your own personal theology.
I'm defining confirmation bias as you already believe something (whether told it, or already drew the conclusion) and then "conveniently" find scripture to fit that belief. vs You gather all the pieces of scripture, and THEN, form a belief around what you've found.
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Post by anfauglith on Jun 25, 2020 10:33:44 GMT -6
A question for you bros. Have you thought about confirmation bias in regards to your theology? I'm not talking about faith vs no-faith... but the other beliefs you have (the doctrine) that forms your own personal theology. I'm defining confirmation bias as you already believe something (whether told it, or already drew the conclusion) and then "conveniently" find scripture to fit that belief. vs You gather all the pieces of scripture, and THEN, form a belief around what you've found. Hm... the second option, I believe, would mean you'd have to read the entire bible, maybe several times, before you start to have a kind of personal theology. I am not sure about this. Maybe this would be a more "pure" way of building faith. But I think one can't help but bringing already existing believes and oppinions into the relationship with God. Which does by no way mean one should not reflect on those and at least from time to time reflect about personal theology.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jun 25, 2020 10:52:01 GMT -6
It's possible that small parts of my overall beliefs are formed by that. But at least in my specific case, the majority was found by finding Scripture, then adapting it to my beliefs. When all this started, I knew so little about the Biblical view of spirituality, it was a joke basically. God shaped so many of my beliefs.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jun 25, 2020 11:13:49 GMT -6
Hm... the second option, I believe, would mean you'd have to read the entire bible, maybe several times, before you start to have a kind of personal theology. I am not sure about this. Maybe this would be a more "pure" way of building faith. But I think one can't help but bringing already existing believes and oppinions into the relationship with God. Which does by no way mean one should not reflect on those and at least from time to time reflect about personal theology. You make a very good point. I seriously doubt anyone who decides to dedicate their life to Jesus (become a Christian) will maintain a "blank slate" on their theology until, like you said, they have a chance to not only read - but absorb all what scripture says about any given topic. No, I think a VAST majority of Christians hear from a preacher, hear from another Christian, read/watch about a topic, etc. to some degree to draw a general conclusion, before they dive into scripture themselves to fine tune it. I would also define confirmation bias as, someone KNOWS a particular theology was taught to them, they KNOW other Christians have a different teachings, but without even looking at the differences, they settle with "Nah, I'm good" and don't investigate further. Opposed to looking at the differences, and then settling with their original stance. XD
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Post by anfauglith on Jun 30, 2020 10:16:34 GMT -6
Today I wanted to form an oppinion about the austrian music project "Sonne der Gerechtigkeit", because I never really was sure if this guy is serious about it all. So I checked out their lyrics... and they are (sorry! Sorry!) really bad... So... I still do not know if the guy is really christian or if this is just another project from someone who wants to make fun of christian underground music... but the lyrics are... just bad. I am really sorry if they are genuine and so on... don't mean to offend anybody... but... just bad.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jun 30, 2020 11:45:35 GMT -6
Today I wanted to form an oppinion about the austrian music project "Sonne der Gerechtigkeit", because I never really was sure if this guy is serious about it all. So I checked out their lyrics... and they are (sorry! Sorry!) really bad... So... I still do not know if the guy is really christian or if this is just another project from someone who wants to make fun of christian underground music... but the lyrics are... just bad. I am really sorry if they are genuine and so on... don't mean to offend anybody... but... just bad. Seems real to me. The lyrics that I've read are all theologically coherent. Granted I only read a few of them. But anyway, parody projects are generally way more blatant. Take these lyrics from parody project Jesu Domine:
Kyrie Eleison Kyrie Fucking Eleison I will crush this foolish goats I will fuck this morons
Or this, also from Jesu Domine:
To destroy you damned satanists Cursed forever you can't flee Because we've got the Cross And blood of Jesus And his flesh as a host So we eat him everyday And we've got power
Where the light of our master Doesn't reach your souls The army of Jesus is sent To fuck up whole the world
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Post by julienbakerfan on Jul 1, 2020 7:46:08 GMT -6
There's always a thin line between "Lyrics parodying Christian black metal" and "Lyrics by Christian black metal band from Brazil."
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Post by Borndead on Jul 1, 2020 8:02:21 GMT -6
There's always a thin line between "Lyrics parodying Christian black metal" and "Lyrics by Christian black metal band from Brazil." haha Brazilians are a strange group of people, even in MMA their fans are notorious lol
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Post by anfauglith on Jul 1, 2020 10:19:42 GMT -6
Today I wanted to form an oppinion about the austrian music project "Sonne der Gerechtigkeit", because I never really was sure if this guy is serious about it all. So I checked out their lyrics... and they are (sorry! Sorry!) really bad... So... I still do not know if the guy is really christian or if this is just another project from someone who wants to make fun of christian underground music... but the lyrics are... just bad. I am really sorry if they are genuine and so on... don't mean to offend anybody... but... just bad. Seems real to me. The lyrics that I've read are all theologically coherent. Granted I only read a few of them. But anyway, parody projects are generally way more blatant. Take these lyrics from parody project Jesu Domine:
Kyrie Eleison Kyrie Fucking Eleison I will crush this foolish goats I will fuck this morons
Or this, also from Jesu Domine:
To destroy you damned satanists Cursed forever you can't flee Because we've got the Cross And blood of Jesus And his flesh as a host So we eat him everyday And we've got power
Where the light of our master Doesn't reach your souls The army of Jesus is sent To fuck up whole the world
Okay... granted, some of the "Sonne der..."-lyrics are just bad in terms of lyrical craftsmanship. Others stand nothing short to those you just quoted. Let me try to translate something from it: Satan did lie again So I quickly drew my sword The blade is nice and smooth Neatly I cut off his turnip (<- I don't know if in English "turnip" is used for "head" in such context) The head grows again So the bastard talks again The blade doesn't get tired I once again cut off his turnip ... and so on... There are even better parts, but i fear they can't be translated in a way that preserves the utter dorkishness of the lyrics... (I'm sorry )
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jul 1, 2020 10:45:52 GMT -6
There's always a thin line between "Lyrics parodying Christian black metal" and "Lyrics by Christian black metal band from Brazil." Examples? All of the Brazilian bands I can think of... well, most of them don't have their lyrics printed online (as with most black metal bands...............) but the ones that do have lyrics all seem fine to me. There are even better parts, but i fear they can't be translated in a way that preserves the utter dorkishness of the lyrics... (I'm sorry ) That doesn't necessarily mean that it's a parody project. There's a reason that good lyrics in black metal are a TOTAL SHOCK to people, it's not a community known for great lyrics. But that is very strange. Maybe I'll send him a message, just to see what he says.
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Post by julienbakerfan on Jul 2, 2020 10:57:35 GMT -6
@nocturnal this was the first thing that came to kind, but looming back I realized I had mixed up the country on it. I usually assume that CBM bands not from the US are from Brazil, prolly because there are so many bands from Brazil
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jul 2, 2020 11:08:45 GMT -6
Satan did lie again So I quickly drew my sword The blade is nice and smooth Neatly I cut off his turnip (<- I don't know if in English "turnip" is used for "head" in such context) The head grows again So the bastard talks again The blade doesn't get tired I once again cut off his turnip I can't even be annoyed by the biblical inaccuracy. This is too funny. I mean, the only way this could be better, if it was something like
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Post by anfauglith on Jul 3, 2020 8:00:25 GMT -6
I admit that i have not read all his lyrics. So maybe there are also more serious ones. But those I have read are a) clumsy and badly written c) dorkish. I do not want to judge. I don't know the guy. It could very well be that he is serious and just a guy who loves writing like this clumsy and a bit pubescent stuff. If that is his thing: No problem here! It is just that I get a bit of sceptic when things are like too much... There has been this band some years ago in Germany... called "Jesus-Skins". Those guys claimed to be christian skinheads. Everyone in the punk scene was like "oooh... christians... how embarrassing.". But in the end they eventually made a statement with "No, of course (!!) we are nothing like that blah blah blah". So, everytime I get this too much kind of lyrics, and people on band pics posing in their sweatpants, I tend to be sceptic.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jul 5, 2020 17:37:47 GMT -6
I had a rather unpleasant interaction online with a couple "Orthodox" fellows. One Eastern. It was a debate channel, they'd studied, and there was some flexing. Probably a combination of the "I'm right, you're all wrong" vibe in a TL:DR term paper and then being called a heretic, had me boiling. My tolerance for debate is completely gone folks. To a fault. ...and I'm unfortunately inclined to do divert to rogue baiting and trolling when they divert to logic and fallacy. Also with having access, kicking and channel deleting.
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Post by Borndead on Jul 6, 2020 17:10:19 GMT -6
I had a rather unpleasant interaction online with a couple "Orthodox" fellows. One Eastern. It was a debate channel, they'd studied, and there was some flexing. Probably a combination of the "I'm right, you're all wrong" vibe in a TL:DR term paper and then being called a heretic, had me boiling. My tolerance for debate is completely gone folks. To a fault. ...and I'm unfortunately inclined to do divert to rogue baiting and trolling when they divert to logic and fallacy. Also with having access, kicking and channel deleting. That's exactly why I've stopped debating long ago. It's just drove me crazy how people act. So, now I'm only open to CONVERSATIONS were both sides are trying to understand each other and don't see themselves as: "I know I'm right". There's just no use in arguing, rarely will you see someone change their mind.
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Post by julienbakerfan on Jul 6, 2020 21:50:51 GMT -6
I had a rather unpleasant interaction online with a couple "Orthodox" fellows. Ten bucks these guys converted about a year ago. I have nothing against Orthodoxy or any other Christian denomination, but some denominations tend to attract...very zealous converts who are ready to flex their newfound theological knowledge. This happened so much in the Calvinist circles that I grew up in that people recognized it was a problem ("cage stage Calvinism"). I think whenever someone embraces a more "intellectual" form of Christianity they run the risk of getting very arrogant and trying to lord it over people who aren't as "smart" as they are. I know a couple of Orthodox priests and they are the nicest people you will ever meet.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jul 6, 2020 21:57:52 GMT -6
Orthodoxy tends to attract smug, arrogant egotists.
I don't think it's something inherent in the teachings of Orthodoxy -- I think it's just what julienbakerfan mentioned, Orthodoxy requires a lot of theological/philosophical reflection and knowledge, and the kind of people who are into that, well, tend to be smug, arrogant, and egotistical.
As they learn more about the specific teachings of Christianity, they will ideally grow beyond that point, become more humble, and learn better how to pick and choose their battles.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jul 7, 2020 8:38:53 GMT -6
I have nothing against Orthodoxy or any other Christian denomination, but some denominations tend to attract...very zealous converts who are ready to flex their newfound theological knowledge. This happened so much in the Calvinist circles that I grew up in that people recognized it was a problem ("cage stage Calvinism"). I think whenever someone embraces a more "intellectual" form of Christianity they run the risk of getting very arrogant and trying to lord it over people who aren't as "smart" as they are. First I'd heard of "cage stage Calvinism", but after reading a bit about it, I can relate to that 100% Its like my online interactions went from, "Yeesh. Calvinists." to "Oh no, Calvinists." and then eventually, "Calvinists, I'm out of here." Sadly, "Orthodox" is taking the same path with me. ...and like you said, it really doesn't have to do with (the) Calvinism theology. Hell, I believe in a degree of predestination... its just some people prone to zeal, don't really know how to productively approach people with all this new knowledge they have other than to just straight up be a bully about it. Or at least so unpleasant that attraction or promotion doesn't even register. More like just a smash and grab.
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