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Post by Kerrick on Jun 1, 2016 7:31:36 GMT -6
I posted this on CMR too but it's something that I've been doing a lot of thinking about lately.
I suspect that many here may have similar sentiments to me towards musical worship at church and I would love to hear your thoughts. I've never been to a church that I *like* the music. Sometimes it's tolerable and other times it's just miserable for me. Regardless, I am always grateful once the music is over and we get on to the message. But as I think most people here acknowledge, worship (in any form) is not for us but for God. I think I can honestly say that I want to do the right thing that will be the most honoring and glorifying to Him. But I just do not know what that is. So my question is: what is worshipful and honoring to God? Do I a) sing along anyways, b) silently mediate on and pray the lyrics, c) show up late and leave early to avoid the music altogether, or d) something else? Is God after our hearts only (i.e. "singing" silently) or does the act of congregational worship in itself bring Him praise? I want to worship my Creator and even if I didn't, I think it's pretty clear in God's Word that we are instructed to worship Him. But how? What is the role of our emotions in this (such as the people waving their hands up in the air with their eyes closed and such)?
Another part of this is within the context of worship, is there any music that is not worshipful to Him? With musical worship, there are two elements: the music and the lyrics (perhaps we should consider instrumental praise/worship music not a point of discussion for this topic?). I'm pretty decided that not all "Christian music" is necessarily "worship," i.e. a song about The Fall isn't praising/worshiping God though can be used for the edification of believers and for evangelism purposes, etc. But what do you think (and why)? Can a lyrically fluffy song all about one's emotions (such as many of the modern "worship" songs) be worshiping to God if the people singing it at church are really "into" the music and emotionally moved by it? Can the musically bland song with strong lyrics be? Is there any music that is not appropriate to be used as worship? Do you agree with me that not all music can be considered worship?
I'd like to hear what folks here think about this and why!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2016 7:45:57 GMT -6
I have had similar experiences with worship music. A lot of it is just plain boring. There's an occasional song that I like, but most are so basic and repetitive that I can't get into it at all. Still, I like to sing along, because it makes it more entertaining for myself and because it is a better way to worship God. I think that silently praying during the songs or "meditating" on the lyrics is a good thing to do too, but my mind would wander too much and I'd start thinking about other things. I'd say that avoiding the music wouldn't be very pleasing to God though. He went through the ultimate sacrifice for us, and we can't sacrifice a little time and perhaps annoy ourselves a little by showing up to the worship part? But that brings us to the other big question you asked - is worship music pleasing to God? I believe so. I think it is a good way to worship God, but not the only way. That being said, I don't think that the music has to be of a certain quality or style in order to please Him. Grave Declaration is worship music after all, and I would LOVE to go to a church where those are the songs that we "sung" (growled I guess, with a little singing) on Sundays.
I agree that not all Christian music is necessarily worship music. Horde serves as an excellent example. That being said, even if it isn't worship, it is still pleasing to God. I doubt that God would be displeased with a song about the defeat of Satan.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jun 1, 2016 9:49:07 GMT -6
Outside of church, we have the freedom to choose which sounds we hear and which songs we sing [along with] as individual people. But in church it's a community decision. Well, in the sense that if a lot of people complain about the song choices, they'll be changed, if a lot of people suggest one it'll probably appear more often, etc. I'm sure there are others at your church who feel similarly about the music, or at least some of it, just like I'm sure that there are those at my church who aren't fans of the hymns I really like. Though honestly, I do actually like a lot of hymns we sing at my church. But as you said, it's ultimately about worshiping God. I'd think it'd be best to sing along with the songs anyway. As long as the lyrics aren't completely out there. It's part of the "community" experience. Because it's still worshiping God, even if you personally aren't much of a fan of the music itself. As for what music is worshipful, it's hard to say. I think it depends on the individual person to an extent, hence why we can have music in so many different genres, but there does have to be a line drawn. I have serious doubts about those songs that sound like creepy love songs instead of proper worship songs, for example. I think as long as the music doesn't contradict God's teachings, and as long as it's made with genuine respect to God, it's "worship".
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jun 1, 2016 12:07:46 GMT -6
I didn't expect this thread to be about the music in church, just from reading the title. ...and I'm sure what I'll say will brand me a heretic, but here we go.
I dislike ALL contemporary worship because bands equate entertainment. No other way around it. ...and while I like entertainment like anyone else, entertainment is lousy worship. It takes focus away that should be God's.
It's always bugged me to watch overdressed performers making O faces for Jesus on stage. I'm also not thinking about God at all when I'm watching what the musicians are doing. My opinion, people that like that stuff are feeling emotion about God, but it's not worshipping God.
Best worship music I've EVER heard was at the Primitive Baptist Church that my late grandmother attended her whole life (and is now buried there). This church is out in the middle of the woods. The pastor is in his mid 90's. The church is less than 50 people. No musical instruments. No song leader drawing attention to themselves up front. Just the congregation, singing in trained quality (bass, alto, soprano, etc.) these ancient underground hymns from centuries ago and I've never heard or felt anything like it.
Now THAT'S worship.
Old people singing a capella isn't my preferred genre of music obviously, but during that worship - entertainment and preferences fade away, and it's all about God now.
That being said, if that part of the service is annoying to you, or something you have to put up with, or you have to "entertain" yourself during it just to stand it... it's just a joke and a waste of time. It's reminiscent of pity. (Like I don't want to watch this new movie that just came out in theatres, but I'll go because my buddy wants to see it. Well, that's a nice thing - but if you're doing this goofy music thing you don't really want to, but you'll force yourself because you think God likes it... that's not worship, that's only a sacrifice of time.)
No way am I obligating myself in regards to God's glory. I should, with all my heart, WANT to worship Him.
I'm sure most of you know this, but I don't go to church. Haven't been to a church service in like 8 years. I absolutely gather with others "in His name", but music isn't part of that equation. My worship outlet comes from something not involving music.
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Post by barabbas on Jun 3, 2016 15:15:25 GMT -6
I heard something a month ago that has been thought-provoking for me: Singing with others is a profound expression of unity in the church. Discrete sounds can occupy the same space, in ways that many other things can not. For example, visual phenomena, human bodies, and such all occupy discrete spaces. Sounds, by contrast, blend and occupy the same space. Moreover, they can blend in ways that make them more pleasing, esp. when done with complementary diversity. So singing together brings people in the body of Christ together in a way that represents the underlying reality that they are already connected together and part of one body (even in the midst of their diversity - I Cor. 12-14).
Worship music at our church is often clunky and aesthetically poor, but what really impacts me is seeing others sing when I know the very difficult trials they have been and are going through. Also, children singing is one of the most wonderful things in the world.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jun 3, 2016 20:22:40 GMT -6
I agree there's a power to a group singing or talking together in unison. I think for those into it, it would be decent worship outlet.
It's those of us (like myself), it wouldn't be significant praise if we had to practice tolerance just to be there.
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Post by thevociferator on Aug 6, 2016 1:20:15 GMT -6
I've been exploring what worshiping looks like to me recently (whenever I actually GET a chance to go to church).
The best way for me to worship at church is the literally headbang and mosh. I'm talking full-on moving, running, stomping, whole nine yards, minus actually touching anyone around me. Of course I need a song with a moving beat to do this with or else it won't work.
My church got a new worship pastor whose style is much more relaxed and intimate than the previous couple (Bryan and Katie Torwalt, that's right!). So I've had to learn how to deal with this change and it sucks! Most of the time, all I can give is my praise through meaningful, symbolic dancing, aka missing, but now I have to get intimate and touchy and it's hard. Especially since I'm 20 and never been on a real romantic date. And my real relationship with Father is really small compared to my head knowledge. But I saw how David both wildly danced naked in the streets AND he intimately, softly played his harp to Father as well.
Jesus has called me to be a warrior poet and there's no finer biblical example than David, and had both a wild side and an intimate. Actually if you think about it, both sides are wild and intimate at the same, just physically manifested differently.
I want to find in church in which I can mosh to upbeat riveting music, but I might just have to be patient and become the lead electric guitarist for my youth group and exert my praise that way.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Aug 6, 2016 10:52:39 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2016 11:00:54 GMT -6
That's a pretty long commute. LOL
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