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Post by _ on Dec 11, 2018 19:13:49 GMT -6
Yeah man, that makes a ton of sense, thank you. What has worked well for you in terms of managing impulses related to alcohol consumption?
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Marijuana
Dec 11, 2018 21:48:20 GMT -6
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 11, 2018 21:48:20 GMT -6
I know that question is for Exo, and his answer may be different than mine... But I think there's a whole lot of truth to this quote regarding impulsivity.
"It is much easier to suppress a first desire than to satisfy those that follow." - Benjamin Franklin
Self control is not a fixed construct that can't be changed. It can be honed and improved.
We always have a choice. Every time I relapsed with drinking in the past, I tried stopping as I was lifting the alcohol to my face. That's too late in the game. I had much more success actually stopping when I took steps (pun intended) to put the brakes on when said relapse was just a drunken fantasy in my mind.
Oh, it was like swatting flies... So many thoughts of getting drunk. But there was finally an end when I did not just give up swatting them away.
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Post by exo on Dec 12, 2018 6:10:31 GMT -6
Yeah man, that makes a ton of sense, thank you. What has worked well for you in terms of managing impulses related to alcohol consumption? Very little, to be brutally honest. Best tactic is to simply not have it around. “Managing” things like that really means not putting yourself into situation in the first place.
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Post by _ on Dec 12, 2018 9:55:23 GMT -6
Oh, it was like swatting flies... So many thoughts of getting drunk. But there was finally an end when I did not just give up swatting them away. The progress is encouraging. Best tactic is to simply not have it around. “Managing” things like that really means not putting yourself into situation in the first place. Isn't it always available, though?
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 12, 2018 12:05:57 GMT -6
Isn't it always available, though? No one magically appears in the booze aisle "How did I get here?" at their local gas station / grocery store / etc. ....or "wakes up" to witness themselves putting a liter jug of whiskey in their hands at the store, in their cart, dragged across the checkout scanner, carried to their vehicle, carried into the home, pulling it up to their face.... Every single one of those actions requires choice. "I'm not going to drink" is considerably harder to adhere to when its in arms length, and considerably easier to adhere to when its not "right there". What Exo is saying has to do with proximity. Old/common/perhaps-cliche recovery saying: You hang out at a barbershop long enough, you'll eventually get a haircut. You're considerably less likely to get a (random) haircut when you're not at a barbershop, or around scissors/combs/etc. Sure barbershops/hair-cutting-supplies are everywhere, but choices need to be made to be around it. This is applicable with any vice, not just drinking or haircuts. XD
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Dec 12, 2018 12:52:25 GMT -6
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Post by exo on Dec 12, 2018 12:52:25 GMT -6
Thomas nailed it. If I have it at home, with nowhere to go, it is very, VERY easy to just say “screw it” and get completely hammered. You can drop 3-4 shots before you actually have time to think it thru, and at that point it’s already in the system, whereas at a store, you have to make a calculated decision, etc....
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 12, 2018 13:49:27 GMT -6
I'm not normally a war-story kind of guy, but I think I'll share one right now. I think it will shed some seriousness/intensity/accuracy to these things: "It is much easier to suppress a first desire than to satisfy those that follow." - Benjamin Franklin You can drop 3-4 shots before you actually have time to think it thru, and at that point it’s already in the system Time travel back to about 2006. I couldn't tell you the day, week or month - probably around October. I'm living in a studio apartment with a woman I'm not married to. I'm on felony probation for an aggravated battery and drinking is prohibited. Me "getting caught" drinking could violate said probation and net me 2 years in jail/prison. I am heavily mired in daily alcoholism, wanting to stop, but not really knowing how. A pint and a half of hard liquor was my daily allotment. One thing I did to "try" to stop drinking, was I gave all my money to the woman I was with. My thinking, "if I don't have money on me, I can't buy booze". Here's what happened. Its early evening, and "the urge" has kicked in. She doesn't want me to drink at all. I want to drink. I talk her out of getting "just a half pint" "to take the edge off". Well, that was gone in about 20 seconds. What was an an overwhelming urge, then blossomed into something I can only describe as utter necessity. I needed MORE booze, right now, more than I needed my next breath of air. I tried to talk her out of another half pint. "No" was her answer. "Fine. I'm turning myself in. Bye." - and I proceed to take my empty half pint bottle and walk downtown to the police station. She walks with me and she's trying her best to talk me out of doing this. I assure her she can stop me at any time, with another half pint. Her answer is still nope. So I keep walking. I'm in the police station, she's crying her eyes out, I throw the empty bottle on the police reception desk and said "I'm not supposed to drink, and I drank." That officer's reaction (facial expression) was PRICELESS by the way. This officer says nothing to me or her, and turns around and makes a phone call. My woman caves - "alright alright! I'll get another one!!". So her and I leave, I don't give reception any of my information. I walk back home, slam 2nd half pint. Sigh of relief, I'm content for the moment. Then.... there's a knock on my door. I open it to the police chief and another cop. They say that I needed help and offered to take me down to the local detox. I agree. The woman I'm with is fine with that. I'm fine with that. The cops are fine with that. Then the chief said, "Its good you agreed to that, because if you didn't, you'd still be coming with us.... to jail." My drinking story definitely doesn't end there, but that's all I need to share to get across the point I was trying to make regarding what I quoted. XD
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Post by _ on Dec 12, 2018 15:10:05 GMT -6
Thanks, guys. Despite the brevity of that sentence, I really mean it.
It seems like problems with alcohol have an element of impulsivity but only so much can translate to more behaviorally based impulse control problems. I mean, alcohol is a substance (hence "Substance Use Disorder"), so one can manage one's exposure to an extent, as difficult as that may be. There's no stimuli/substance/environment management with one struggling with an impulse Control Disorder like hair pulling or binge eating.
What does one do to manage the desire to go to the barbershop, so to speak.
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Marijuana
Dec 12, 2018 15:40:06 GMT -6
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Post by exo on Dec 12, 2018 15:40:06 GMT -6
Thanks, guys. Despite the brevity of that sentence, I really mean it. It seems like problems with alcohol have an element of impulsivity but only so much can translate to more behaviorally based impulse control problems. I mean, alcohol is a substance (hence "Substance Use Disorder"), so one can manage one's exposure to an extent, as difficult as that may be. There's no stimuli/substance/environment management with one struggling with an impulse Control Disorder like hair pulling or binge eating. What does one do to manage the desire to go to the barbershop, so to speak. Pray. Focus on other things. Become cognizant of what your “triggers” are.....be attentive and vigilant to the issue you know you have. I work in a grocery store. We sell beer, wine, and liquor. I have ample opportunity to purchase whatever I want every day of the week, it simply takes a 50ft detour on my way out of the building......and while I was still having a beer or two daily, I didn’t touch a drop of hard liquor between May and mid November......then I let my guard down because my absolute favorite spirit (Smirnoff Peppermint Twist vodka) came back on the market, and it’s a “treat” I only can get during “Holiday season”. Two weeks ago, I drank an entire 750ml bottle in two days (which was really more like 36 hours), and that WASN’T days I was off work. Full stop on the Peppermint Twist as of the next day. I was flirting with the danger zone, and crossed over the line. Haven’t bought another bottle of it since......but will I need to re-teach myself the lesson again? I’m a bullheaded dipshit, so probably......at least until i’m “ready” to cease consuming any alcohol whatsoever, which MAY never come, since I honestly enjoy the taste of beer a whole lot. It took me 17 YEARS to overcome smoking. It’s trite sounding, but you just keep on keeping on..... course correction is a thing, man.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 12, 2018 16:29:17 GMT -6
What does one do to manage the desire to go to the barbershop, so to speak. I think anyone would be reluctant to go to the barbershop again if the last visit there took half their ear. The biggest incentive people have to not start down "that" path "again" is one thing: Consequences. I don't think its even possible to stop an addiction/impulsive-behavior if NOTHING bad ever happens from it. Feeling bad about doing it doesn't hold much weight as a consequence. At all. I'd absolutely be drunk every day now if drinking did not cause me any problems. I am positive of this. I have seen old-timers in AA meetings tell people to go out and get hammered. "I'll even buy you a drink." ...if they thought the person who wanted to stop drinking, simply didn't have enough problems to stop. While I've always thought that was a reckless and stupid thing to say to someone who admits a drinking problem, it doesn't stop it from being hard, hard truth to many, many people. Some people just cannot stop until their addiction/impulsive behaviors completely ruin their lives. (hitting bottom) I am in this flock. If anyone is 100% convinced that "1 more" will mean: - all their belongings and money, gone - friends, family, relationships, gone - good health, gone - a lifetime interaction with the legal system, hello - they won't even die, but it will be years of hell on earth ....then they will do EVERYTHING they can to stop. The tools they were given before to stop, will turn from being useless, to becoming almost sacred.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 12, 2018 16:52:11 GMT -6
It took me 17 YEARS to overcome smoking. Smoking is particularly challenging because any and all consequences are a long distance away. If only 3 weeks of smoking every day meant 1) all your money was gone 2) having to sit and breathe for 2 minutes after taking 1 flight of stairs... NO ONE would smoke.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 2, 2019 10:35:36 GMT -6
Its strange to me the names of cannabis strains, as well as how much information there are on its characteristics and genetics. I normally don't know the name of the stuff I'm getting. I only know what's "good" based on other factors. The last 8th oz I bought lasted over 3 months, and this new batch I recently acquired actually came with a strain name. The only question "my source" has asked was "what do you want?" I've never had specific strains or names in mind, so my answer was "whatever best helps with pain and nausea". No sense in me even sharing this goofy title, or numbers for it. It won't mean anything to anyone here. ...but I was quite pleased to see that when I looked it up, what I have is VERY well suited to deal with nausea and pain.
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Post by _ on Mar 2, 2019 19:25:03 GMT -6
re: "what do you want," could you throw out some black metal band names next time and see what he comes back with?
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Mar 2, 2019 20:51:34 GMT -6
could you throw out some black metal band names next time and see what he comes back with? I think secular Australian band "Aasdgoihasdghexekul" would be a good name to use in this instance.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 3, 2019 8:56:38 GMT -6
Google has information. There are a few cannabis strains named after Pantera/Dimebag Darrel. I haven't run into any others that scream "black metal" to me.... but if Immortal/Abbath partook of the ganja, I imagine they would want to get "Permafrost".
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Post by Deepfriar on Mar 4, 2019 9:05:24 GMT -6
Lol...
I'm hoping my state legalizes medical this year. They've tried a couple times already, but maybe this year is the year.
Then I'd just have to find the right doctor... lol. Does wonders for anxiety and helps me sleep. I haven't had any in a long time though but when I do, I use a vaporizer. Easier on the lungs.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 4, 2019 16:44:31 GMT -6
I'm hoping my state legalizes medical this year. We just got a new governor in Illinois in mid January. No sense in me saying what he's saying when he's got a video saying it himself. XD
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jun 6, 2019 7:07:49 GMT -6
Well, it's a definite for my state now.
The Cannabis Regulation and Tax Act (Illinois House Bill 1438) was approved by both houses, and recreational cannabis will be legal in Illinois starting January 1, 2020.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Feb 25, 2020 12:51:44 GMT -6
Pretty surreal to just be able to drive 20 minutes to a store to buy this now. I saw 5 different security guards in the building and the line was an hour plus wait time, but it was a constantly moving line in a big building, and passing conversations with folks was friendly. Not too bad considering this amount (1/8th of an ounce) will still provide months of relief for me. (at one toke a day as needed still performs outstanding regarding killing my nausea and pain) I'd only be making this trip a few times a year. (side note, I'd say half if not more of the folks in line were "older". Less expensive and more effective pain/discomfort management than scripts, at least that's been my experience as a cancer survivor. Even though this was the "recreational" line.) I didn't know quite what to expect with the environment inside, but it definitely resembled closer to a doctor's office than a headshop or a liquor store. There weren't lava lamps with dim lightning, Greatful Dead music playing, beads and potleaf artwork everywhere. LOL More like nice chairs, formally decorated hallways (impressive paintings of cannabis plants), and plasmas showing various strains of cannabis. Restrooms easily available too, which is a plus for me at least. I was never too worried about obtaining this, if anything, I was worried I was inconveniencing those helping me manage pain/discomfort. ...but a store to purchase in, certainly removes the ambiguity of coordinating schedules for "a pickup". XD
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Post by Borndead on Feb 25, 2020 13:17:04 GMT -6
Hey hey don´t ya dare diss the lava lamp, also glad it will help you with the nausea and pain.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Feb 25, 2020 15:41:34 GMT -6
I didn't know quite what to expect with the environment inside, but it definitely resembled closer to a doctor's office than a headshop or a liquor store. There weren't lava lamps with dim lightning, Greatful Dead music playing, beads and potleaf artwork everywhere. LOL More like nice chairs, formally decorated hallways (impressive paintings of cannabis plants), and plasmas showing various strains of cannabis. I'm really relieved to hear the public is taking medical marijuana seriously as a medication, and not trying to be all "cute" about it.
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Post by julienbakerfan on Feb 25, 2020 22:54:54 GMT -6
People often think I smoke (I guess I look like a stoner), but I never have. The closest I've gotten was getting secondhand high at a Veil of Maya concert; it was a mildly interesting experience, but not one that I felt like I just *had* to repeat.
Personally, I never used marijuana because the Bible seems pretty strongly to prohibit intoxication and getting high from marijuana seemed analogous to being drunk, although there are some differences (conversations with high people are significantly different than conversations with drunk people). I'd be interested to know if there were dissenting opinions from Christians. I'm probably not likely to smoke anyway, given my list of mental health issues and the many conversations I've had with people who were high while I was sober. But I would like to look at all sides of the issue.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Feb 26, 2020 22:29:55 GMT -6
Personally, I never used marijuana because the Bible seems pretty strongly to prohibit intoxication Someone could drink wine without getting drunk, just like someone could smoke weed without getting stoned. "use" doesn't always have an "ab" in front of it, my friend. I think the "smoking weed = intoxication" misconception is becoming less common as more people actually consume cannabis, at least on behalf of medicinal reasons. I'm really relieved to hear the public is taking medical marijuana seriously as a medication, and not trying to be all "cute" about it. They had staff taking people's orders in line, that way, people get in the check out room, get their name called, and check out. I did think it was pretty "cute" when dude walked up people with his iPad to order and said, "Hi, my name is Austin, and I'll be your budtender today."
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Post by julienbakerfan on Feb 26, 2020 23:46:30 GMT -6
Someone could drink wine without getting drunk, just like someone could smoke weed without getting stoned. Considering that most of the weed smokers I've known have been college students, high school students, or people I talk to at concerts, it's understandable that I could have this misimpression. Or else I imbibed it from some anti-marijuana propaganda. If you smoke just a little, do you just get a "buzz" or something, like where you're in control of your actions, but feel different? use" doesn't always have an "ab" in front of it, my friend. Indeed.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Feb 29, 2020 9:38:03 GMT -6
Considering that most of the weed smokers I've known have been college students, high school students, or people I talk to at concerts, it's understandable that I could have this misimpression. I had the same mis-impression for years. I mean, when oncology and my surgeon suggested cannabis use, the former drug and alcohol counselor in me responded initially with "nononononononono" because "sober people don't do drugs". When cancer put my back against the wall and the choices were agony or cannabis, I discovered that medication is medication, stigma is stigma and sobriety and responsibility go hand in hand. Or else I imbibed it from some anti-marijuana propaganda. The Nixon and Reagan era "War on Drugs" made a lot of older folks minds up about this. That got passed on to their kids. (I'm one of those) The medical field is shedding a different light, and it works IMO, because its a different context. Someone on Dilauded in a hospital bed, they're "recovering from surgery". Someone on Dilauded in the parking lot of a Denny's, they're "a drug abuser". If you smoke just a little, do you just get a "buzz" or something, like where you're in control of your actions, but feel different? There's so many different strains of cannabis that are bred for different efficiencies. Cancer and life afterward, I struggle with nerve pain, nausea and fatigue. Some strains energize instead of calm. Then there's CBD, which counteracts THC and has no element of intoxication whatsoever. Its all pretty complicated. Yes, I feel "something", even with 1 toke. ...but 1 toke almost every day, tolerance is a factor as well. My wife and parents cannot tell when I've had a toke and when I haven't. My wife will ask me sometimes when I had a poof, so she knows when to start supper. Have you ever drank some strong coffee and feel kind of hyper afterward for a bit? That's the best description I can come up with for the moment. LOL Except with cannabis, there's no "crash" per say hours later. Just some dry mouth, which makes me want to drink more water, which only helps the gut woes I normally struggle with.
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Post by julienbakerfan on Feb 29, 2020 19:01:32 GMT -6
Have you ever drank some strong coffee and feel kind of hyper afterward for a bit? When I drink coffee, I feel anxious, stressed, and paranoid for the rest of the day. Which is why I quit caffeine. I discovered that medication is medication, stigma is stigma and sobriety and responsibility go hand in hand. I'm definitely in favor of medical usage, and probably in favor of legalization as well. Again, the smokers I was/am around the most are stoners and people for whom marijuana is a gateway drug, so naturally I have an aversion to it.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 1, 2020 10:31:14 GMT -6
When I drink coffee, I feel anxious, stressed, and paranoid for the rest of the day. Which is why I quit caffeine. Yikes. Sorry that happens bro. I feel like I'm the type that functions just fine without caffeine, but I'll have a headache in the afternoon if I don't caffeine that morning. Coffee makes me feel happy. ...and going to the restroom is easier. (probably it being a stimulant)
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Post by julienbakerfan on Mar 2, 2020 20:47:16 GMT -6
..and going to the restroom is easier. (probably it being a stimulant) Caffeine is a bladder irritant for me.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Mar 3, 2020 22:25:30 GMT -6
I used to feel kind of strange if I didn't have any soda the previous day.
I don't have that anymore, thankfully.
But I still crave soda more after exercise.
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Post by julienbakerfan on Mar 16, 2021 22:13:23 GMT -6
Weed in the Bible!
So I was reading some far-out theories today about marijuana in the Bible from the book Liber 420. One of them was that the incense and oil used in the Old Testament contained cannabis. I can't confirm or deny the plausibility of this since it relies on Hebrew exegesis and I don't speak Hebrew. Not sure what the implications are anyway.
The other theory in the book relating to weed in the Bible is that the crucifixion was faked--the person who gave Jesus "sour wine mixed with hyssop" actually gave him some kind of weed-laced concoction that knocked him out, making him only look dead enough to put in the tomb. This to me seems like the classic case of "any stick is good enough to beat Christianity with" plus "exegesis I did after reading the passage once."
The book also makes the snide remark that the apocryphal "Acts of John and the Apostles" was composed "before the finalized New Testament"; deceptive considering the fact that most of the NT was composed before the first century AD, and the "finalization" of the canon was just a confirmation of pre-existing Christian traditions about what was considered authoritative.
Edit: Forgot to add: Chrischins bad Nostics gud
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