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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 15:46:27 GMT -6
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Post by Kerrick on Feb 12, 2015 16:12:09 GMT -6
I never liked the "unblack" term either; I'm with you there! As for the list, it's pretty good. I could never get into Frost Like Ashes. Frosthardr is indeed mighty good, but with just a demo and two EPs, I'd be hesitant to include them on the list. Horde is historically very important, but musically I think there are far better bands out there now. I feel like Lengsel should be on that list. I listen to more Vials Of Wrath than most any other Christian black metal band nowadays. Too bad stuff like Flaskavsae gets overlooked too, as that's a band I'd definitely include too. I agree with the Antestor, Crimson Moonlight, and Sanctifica though.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 16:40:46 GMT -6
These are all good (awesome) bands for sure, but the selection is also a bit...obvious, you know? It's a little bit like the common 'when somebody asks you about Christian BM, you can't go wrong with...'-list. When it comes to bands that could appeal to some more (black metal) listeners, I'd agree that Lengsel (at least the Solace album) or Vials of Wrath could be mentioned. Also have to think of Lo Ruhamah or (even though it feels a bit silly to mention a No Sleep release, somehow) the latest Eulogium EP. Or perhaps that good old Erasmus album. In terms of symphonic Black Metal Nephesh, Grave Declaration or Divine Symphony should be mentioned. Oh, and I still think that - if someone is looking for a GREAT atmospheric album - people should check out Through The Thorns. Of course one could name some 'raw'/total underground albums as well, but I guess this might stray from what this list was about...
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 18:02:53 GMT -6
Strange thing is that he called it "Christian black metal" in the title, but "unblack metal" throughout the article. I agree with Kerrick and doedelagt that I don't like the term "unblack" since black metal is simply a music style with no lyrical prerequisite. As for the list, I absolutely agree with Antestor, Crimson Moonlight, Slechtvalk and Frosthardr. I would remove Sanctifica, Frost Like Ashes, and I would only keep Horde for historical value like Kerrick said.
If I were to make my own top 7 list, this would be it:
1. Grave Declaration 2. Crimson Moonlight 3. Vaakevandring 4. Shadows of Paragon 5. Lengsel 6. Stronghold 7. Erasmus
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2015 21:43:40 GMT -6
Great list, but I agree its pretty obvious selections. I wish Armarth Sargon, Elibbor, and other one man projects had made the list
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Feb 12, 2015 23:11:07 GMT -6
This might rock the boat a bit. Let me preface that I do have a passion for the Christian black metal scene and you guys, and probably always will... ...but I don't like the specially coined terms "unblack" OR "Christian black metal".
What is Dark Funeral? Its black metal. What is Crimson Moonlight? Its black metal. What is Sargeist? Its black metal. What is Hortor? Its black metal.
Modifying the music genre name just because of the lyrical content is segregating. I mean, the name works in OUR favor because that's what we're looking for... but what about someone who will never give the music a change because they're so far-gone, "Christian" sends them running the other way?
They're not listening.
Wouldn't you all agree that if anyone should be listening to "Christian" black metal, it would be someone who needs God?
I'm reminded of my dark period when I lived in a party house with that gore grind band I was in - keep in mind, these guys were anti-God. They were telling me about how back in 1992, they heard Moritification "Scrolls of the Megilloth" and thought it was the most brutal thing they've ever heard. They wrote the band. ...and got responses. Granted, they ended up tapering off because Steve Rowe came across too strong...
...but the point it, these metalheads who NEED Jesus wouldn't have given Mortification a second though or a first try if Scrolls was advertised to them as "Christian", "Christian band", "Christian metal", "Christian grindcore". While they didn't get saved from the Mortification experience, they did concede that this Christian band was talented and it blew them away. They didn't actually care that the lyrics were holy. ...what was the dealbreaker though was the box of "get saved now" stuff that Steve Rowe sent them.
Goes to show that people lose interest very quickly when pissed off.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 9:50:16 GMT -6
This might rock the boat a bit. Let me preface that I do have a passion for the Christian black metal scene and you guys, and probably always will... ...but I don't like the specially coined terms "unblack" OR "Christian black metal". What is Dark Funeral? Its black metal. What is Crimson Moonlight? Its black metal. What is Sargeist? Its black metal. What is Hortor? Its black metal. Modifying the music genre name just because of the lyrical content is segregating. I mean, the name works in OUR favor because that's what we're looking for... but what about someone who will never give the music a change because they're so far-gone, "Christian" sends them running the other way? They're not listening. Wouldn't you all agree that if anyone should be listening to "Christian" black metal, it would be someone who needs God? I'm reminded of my dark period when I lived in a party house with that gore grind band I was in - keep in mind, these guys were anti-God. They were telling me about how back in 1992, they heard Moritification "Scrolls of the Megilloth" and thought it was the most brutal thing they've ever heard. They wrote the band. ...and got responses. Granted, they ended up tapering off because Steve Rowe came across too strong... ...but the point it, these metalheads who NEED Jesus wouldn't have given Mortification a second though or a first try if Scrolls was advertised to them as "Christian", "Christian band", "Christian metal", "Christian grindcore". While they didn't get saved from the Mortification experience, they did concede that this Christian band was talented and it blew them away. They didn't actually care that the lyrics were holy. ...what was the dealbreaker though was the box of "get saved now" stuff that Steve Rowe sent them. Goes to show that people lose interest very quickly when pissed off. I would have to agree on some level. There needs to be a balance. For example I am going to send off to Destructive for an album review of OMW and I have listed them as Experimental Black Metal, WHICH THEY ARE. But the band makes no bones that they do their music for the Glory of Christ in their bio. Lyrically however they don't force it down your throat. Should be an interesting reveiw. Christian bands DO make it into the secular scene but not many. Zero+onE WAS lucky enough to be one who had at least got some notice in secular zines like that so maybe more can as well.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2015 17:43:46 GMT -6
Of course these categories are segregating, but obviously that's exactly what some people want: Christians want to know, if it's "safe" to listen to this or that band and some people in the 'secular' scene feel kind of tricked, if a Christian BM band is presented as BM (without any other supplement or information). Besides the special case of Christian BM people have always discussed what defines BM. Of course it's easy to point out, that reasoning it with lyrics alone is kind of pointless when talking about MUSIC. On the other hand a certain attitude has always been part of BM. The usual music plus lyrics about eating icecream wouldn't 'be' Black Metal for most people. It's true: not many Christian (BM) bands get attention in the 'secular' scene, but we should keep in mind that tons of secular bands also don't get any attention as well. There's simply a lot of music out there. Otherwise I've traded Unblack releases with guys from regular BM labels a few times; seems like they don't care that much: if they're interested in the music, they're interested in music. Period.
...and Larry, please keep us posted about that review!
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Post by drawnsword on Feb 14, 2015 21:48:48 GMT -6
Good list. I think Elgibbor and Flaskavsae would have been a better choice for a couple though.
There's not much to reason about if it is just the music if you think about it. If you strip Black Metal of it's lyrics and spiritual atmospheric dynamic then all your left with is the tone and production to identify it as a style. Then that doesnt work because Death metal, Doom and thrash bands might have a cold guitar tone and a grim production but know one will think they are Black metal.Unblack is a perfect name for the movement imo, as it totally turns it on the few who get it what it actually is.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2015 21:59:03 GMT -6
Black metal could be about sports for all I care. It's a music style. The tone and production aren't the only things that set it aside from other styles of music. Tremolo and frequent blastbeats are standard characteristics, as well as the vocal style. And the production doesn't necessarily have to be rough either; you have high-production bands like Morgenroede and Vials of Wrath, but you also have low-production bands like Elgibbor and Beeroth.
There's no lyrical prerequisite for any style of music. Someone could write a pop song about Greek mythology and it would still be pop. Someone could write a black metal song about video games and it would still be black metal. Just because most pop artists choose to write lyrics about love doesn't mean it's a requirement for the genre. Just because most black metal artists choose to write spiritual lyrics doesn't mean it's a requirement for the genre.
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Post by drawnsword on Feb 14, 2015 22:58:07 GMT -6
Tremolo and frequent blastbeats are standard characteristics, as well as the vocal style. And the production doesn't necessarily have to be rough either ...Just because most black metal artists choose to write spiritual lyrics Yeah those are traditional characteristics, but not rules every one has followed. BM is all about the atmosphere, to create something as black as they can in that grim and cold style. The original goal to create something so evil and hideous sounding that it was also a rebellion against death and thrash metal with that goal still remaining today. The only common thing between the wide range of BM sounding acts is the tone, production, lyrics that are deeply negative(in the overall sense regardless of ideology) and extreme atmospheric feeling. True BM acts don't think of there production as rough, it has been very carefully recorded and mixed for a certain sound. Consider the many BM ideologies embraced by various acts. Bleak utter hopelessness / racism/ hatred / negativity / misanthropy/ individualism/ orthodox satanism/ majik ritual worship/ pagan god cult etc . All of them are negative which equals evil and rightly colours it black. Consider the spirits in the spiritual realm, suicide, deppression, oppression, voices, levitation, spells etc. There are purposely spiritual, plus incantations etc done by acts and there are those who could not give a crap about spiritual stuff but are oppressed by demons without knowing or plain filled with hate. Those who lyric about unblack stuff regardless of Christian lyrics get called out! Thats the way i understand it anyway, take what you will.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Feb 15, 2015 2:15:53 GMT -6
The black metal scene is plagued by a super-importance of history. The leg that so many purists have to stand on is "because that's how it started" coupled with a logical fallacy of "because that's how it started, that's the only way it can be be.".
That's about as sane as someone today saying that Heroin is a trve/cvlt cough syrup.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2015 6:51:30 GMT -6
I won't pretend that defining it based on content is very rational. Furthermore I don't even think that it can be discusssed on a common basis. For some people bm is simply a certain kind of sound, others experienced it as a certain kind of atmosphere, feeling and - in this way - something that differs a lot form other metal styles that were prevalent at the time that the 'second wave' started. I don't mind if someone wants to play bm and write lyrics about, let's say, video games (like CrimsonWarrior said) and yes: there's no really rational argument to claim, that 'you cannot do it like this', I simply think it's a matter of fact, that most bm listeners would perceive the final product as something different than what is usually described by the term 'black metal'. With this in mind I think, that speaking of Unblack/Christian Black Metal makes sense, simply because it tells people something they might want to know.
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