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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Oct 7, 2018 9:59:51 GMT -6
Feelings aren't fact though. I've listened to "dark" music that caused bad things to happen in my life. Not about to give examples for obvious reasons. But there were songs, every time I listened to them, something bad would happen. I would stop listening to them for weeks at a time, and things would go pretty smoothly in my life. I would listen to them again, and the very next day, I would, say, have an extremely bad day at school for some reason. This happened multiple times, and I feel very confident saying after all those times, it wasn't a coincidence or something I could just "feel". The founding fathers of black metal were more insane than evil. Their insanity was influenced by evil. Dead's obsession with death (including the dead bird thing) "might" have been initially caused by a mental problem (I guess people aren't really sure) but it was exacerbated by his occult beliefs about the afterlife, the universe, the nature of the soul, etc. ( "To give some semblance of an explanation I'm not a human, this is just a dream and soon I will awake." etc)
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 10, 2018 11:57:20 GMT -6
I've listened to "dark" music that caused bad things to happen in my life. Not about to give examples for obvious reasons. But there were songs, every time I listened to them, something bad would happen. I would stop listening to them for weeks at a time, and things would go pretty smoothly in my life. I would listen to them again, and the very next day, I would, say, have an extremely bad day at school for some reason. This happened multiple times, and I feel very confident saying after all those times, it wasn't a coincidence or something I could just "feel". Sorry bro, but I don't believe any music CAUSES bad things to happen to anyone. That's nothing more than superstition and a red herring. I think you were utterly convinced something bad would happen when you listened to that, and if you listen to that again.... and because of that, something bad will always be there to noticed when the timing is right. Psychics and the belief of psychics works the same way. When you mix the recipient's vulnerability, their openness for supernatural answers, and input to the situation (however vague) by mixing material and spiritual elements, then belief about cause and effect is skewed way out of proportion. I've got a relative that firmly believes that all the problems another relative is having at their job, is because God is punishing them because of a relationship choice they made in their life. Likewise, this same relative believes that if they found $20 walking down a sidewalk, it is because God blessed them. Poppycock. My response to all-of-the-above is Ephesians 1.... the whole chapter. God blesses us spiritually, not with "stuff". Likewise, we can be attacked spiritually by forces of evil, but again - not with stuff. Both are an inside job kind of thing. Spiritual and material never connect. They can't. Its impossible. Spirituality is LIFE - "stuff" can never be alive. 1) Alcohol ruined my marriage. 2) Listening to Satanic Black Metal made bad things happen to me. 3) My friend played too many violent video games and ended up killing someone. If these were truly the case, wouldn't everyone that drank have their marriage end? Wouldn't everyone that listened to satanic black metal have something bad happen? Wouldn't everyone that played violent video games be killing people? From a legal standpoint, there's enough reasonable doubt there, none of those "materials" could be convicted. ...but if its not those things causing it, what's going on? The person's reaction to "stuff". Or the expectation of material things having power, to set the stage for said reaction. If I formed the superstition that something bad would happen if I listened to Conway Twitty, I then permit myself to LOOK for something bad whenever I hear it. "I dropped a plate while drying it and it broke. Damn you Conway Twitty." That just not make any sense to me. Their insanity was influenced by evil. Do you believe there's a difference between trying to be evil and being evil? Because huffing a dead bird sounds more to me like a pile of "trying" than the epitome of evil incarnate....
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Oct 10, 2018 20:02:41 GMT -6
At this point I'm not trying to convince you that what I'm saying is true. I absolutely respect that you don't see this the same way I do. The only thing that bothers me is that the things you're pointing out are really obvious, and things I already took into consideration. I just want to establish that there's much more thought behind my claims than simple "correlation equals causation" / placebo effect / etc type of stuff. Not to say I wasn't VERY influenced by superstitions back then, but I was always careful to weigh options and be observant of things going on around me, specifically because I wanted to test my hypotheses. (Eg if I walked under a ladder, I would specifically see how the next few days went to see if walking under ladders really brought bad luck or not) Do you believe there's a difference between trying to be evil and being evil? Not really. It's mostly about intent, isn't it? If someone huffs a dead bird for the sake of righteousness (no idea how that'd work, but anyway), God would see their efforts and how they (somehow lol) intended for their actions to serve Him, and presumably count it as righteousness. Likewise if someone huffs a dead bird for the sake of evil, their heart seeks to serve evil through it. Laughably so, but good and evil don't exist based on how comedic/serious they are. For every monk well-versed in philosophy, church history, general wisdom about life, etc, there's a well-meaning goofball making bedroom black metal about killing demons. Likewise, for every luciferian "priest" who treats it as a serious academic and personal discipline, there's an evil goofball sniffing birds and throwing around pig heads at their concerts because "IT SCARES AWAY POSERS, SO IT MUST BE SUPER DUPER EVIL!"
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 11, 2018 12:43:39 GMT -6
At this point I'm not trying to convince you that what I'm saying is true. I absolutely respect that you don't see this the same way I do. The only thing that bothers me is that the things you're pointing out are really obvious, and things I already took into consideration. I just want to establish that there's much more thought behind my claims than simple "correlation equals causation" / placebo effect / etc type of stuff. I truly believe that if someone feels depressed after listening to music (because of its message or sound) that the music can be a true catalyst. Cause and effect in action and can be witnessed, identified, etc. ....but this isn't a blanket for everyone to be under, and again, its not the music CAUSING it - its a catalyst. Like an alcoholic with alcohol. If they don't drink, no problem. A bottle of alcohol isn't alive so it doesn't do anything until someone does something with it. Mix the two (person and alcohol) it all depends on the person if there's loss of control or bad things happen.... but again, those bad things aren't a certainty; only a higher risk. I was a RAGING alcoholic when I drank, but I used to take some pride that I was a gentlemen while drinking 29 out of the 30 times.... ...that one time though, I was making the newspaper. ....and with whatever your scenario is, (listening to music CAUSED something material to happen) I'm literally a molecule away from believing it myself.... if I saw the evidence to support it. I've always tried to tread the fine line of having an open mind, but not so open my brains fall out.... Item A causing Action B as a generality doesn't sit well to me. I don't believe inanimate "things" have power - because they're not alive. ....but the mind can put the pieces together if its "open" enough. Not only that, but there's a cart/horse/chicken/egg order element. Does someone kill other people BECAUSE they played violent video games? ....or does someone kill someone BECAUSE they're disturbed, and enjoying violent video games was just a symptom of their instability? I don't know how that can be proven... and of course, that example branches out to music and whatever shenanigans come with that. It's mostly about intent, isn't it? Mostly? I'm not sure. ....but intent is one ingredient to the recipe for sure. All I know of Dead's huffing of a dead bird in a bag is because he felt closer to "death" by breathing decay. To me, that's more along the lines of "a personal search" - he was looking for something - than it is a grand intent to show others how evil he was.
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Post by thevociferator on Oct 24, 2018 20:26:04 GMT -6
I'll catch up on the debate on christian and black metal and the term unblack.
but i'm going to say that i was disappointed by the blog. I don't know, whoever runs it is trying to seem professional almost but yet fails to really hit the mark. Yes the dude is somewhat long winded, but I don't think he is really breaking everything down as much as the dude should. the dude has no references at all to prove any statement or have any level of academic worth. Maybe people in the scene think it's overcompensating, but I think having a full-on proper academic peer-reviewed article on black metal and jesus would be really cool to see. Honestly if someone even decides to write a book on their own philosophy surrounding the genre/movement/lifestyle of black metal, I would support it all the way. I'd pay $100 for a kickstarter campaign to press and distribute the book.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Oct 24, 2018 21:42:47 GMT -6
the dude has no references at all to prove any statement or have any level of academic worth. Eh, that's assuming it was supposed to be academic in the first place. Like no doubt, they're clearly going for a more formal tone than me and my ramblings, but until they make their intentions clearer, I can't help feeling this criticism is a bit presumptuous. It would be cool to see them take the next step and add that extra bit of professionalism to future posts. Clearly a lot of thought has gone into the two posts that are there so far... The only thing then, is, would we be asking too much of a blog that they presumably write for free?
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Post by thevociferator on Oct 24, 2018 22:24:02 GMT -6
Well okay I went through the Transcendental Black Metal Manifesto and didn't see any references, but did have illustrations. Hmm maybe being in university right now, I think in terms of MLA and AP formats so I expect anything being professional to be put in MLA format. Perhaps that is an unrealistic expectation
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 25, 2018 14:54:17 GMT -6
the dude has no references at all to prove any statement or have any level of academic worth. Ever since I saw 2 people with 3 PhDs between them maul a PowerPoint presentation to the point of "what's happening?", I no longer consider academic credentials to be a guaranteed "higher standard" regarding information presented or provided. I don't think someone could truly utilize a doctorate when talking about something like "unblack metal". Defining, categorizing, characterizing..... its all opinion, references would be someone else's opinion, any claims can be disputed with "no it isn't", and any argument/counter points wouldn't have any more substance than a run of the mill YouTube comment.
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Post by SLAVE_HEART on Oct 25, 2018 17:43:59 GMT -6
Ever since I saw 2 people with 3 PhDs between them maul a PowerPoint presentation to the point of "what's happening?", I no longer consider academic credentials to be a guaranteed "higher standard" regarding information presented or provided. I don't think someone could truly utilize a doctorate when talking about something like "unblack metal". Defining, categorizing, characterizing..... its all opinion, references would be someone else's opinion, any claims can be disputed with "no it isn't", and any argument/counter points wouldn't have any more substance than a run of the mill YouTube comment. Pardon me, But I'm a simple Idiot with no college experience, however I love you both thomas and nocturnal, and I love the music be it termed unblack or Christian Black metal. Yet to get into unblackology I have no experience in the history of Unblack, some rough basics. But I collect ruthlessly, because I love the music and the message. So thus, my only response is, if you write a book on unblackology I would certainly read it, after you "Professors" argue the meat of this class and then appoint one to write it in laymans terms, so then I can read it too! Crush Satan!
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Post by SLAVE_HEART on Oct 25, 2018 17:50:03 GMT -6
So thus, my only response is, if you write a book on unblackology I would certainly read it, after you "Professors" argue the meat of this class and then appoint one to write it in laymans terms, so then I can read it too! Crush Satan! And when it's written, I'll be able to say... OH THAT'S WHY THAT CD COST ME 50 DOLLARS ON THAT BACKWOODS COUNTRY WEBSITE THAT LOOKED LIKE IT WAS MADE IN THE 80'S
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 26, 2018 11:29:15 GMT -6
Pardon me, But I'm a simple Idiot with no college experience, however I love you both thomas and nocturnal, and I love the music be it termed unblack or Christian Black metal. Minus having college experience, I'm in the same boat. (an idiot who loves the music irregardless of what its termed) That being said, I'd still say my opinion has no more weight than yours, or anyone elses. So thus, my only response is, if you write a book on unblackology I would certainly read it, after you "Professors" argue the meat of this class and then appoint one to write it in laymans terms, so then I can read it too! I will keep this in mind. Seriously. ....but I can only say this. If I did write a book, it would just be my opinions/logic - just like if you wrote a book, it would be your opinions/logic.
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Post by SLAVE_HEART on Oct 26, 2018 11:59:55 GMT -6
I'd still say my opinion has no more weight than yours, or anyone elses Because That's the wonderful thing about the blackest light, everyone can share their opinions with each other in a friendly fire atmosphere to learn more about each other in music and fellowship.
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