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Post by tothedeath on Dec 12, 2018 14:01:35 GMT -6
Hi, Firstly I’m a new user so hello everyone. Secondly I’m preferring to keep my identity a secret as things I may ask/say here could have an impact on my musical/artistic “career” so to speak. I play in a few black metal bands and have done/continue to do artwork for a number of bands. With that said I have a question for everyone here who considers themselves Christian, hence why I posted this in the Unblack section rather than the normal Black Metal section. It also relates to Unblack Metal as well so it seemed like a fitting area all around. I’ve been involved in the BM scene since I was 13, I’m now in my 30’s. Growing up I had religion forced down my throat by my family who were all strcit Catholics. The constant feeling of never being good enough or strict enough with a God I didn’t truly understand nor believed in made it easy for me to renounce all religion at a young age. I’m high school I became heavily involved in the hardcore/punk scene and found Christian Hardcore, I started attending church with some of my friends who were also involved in the Christian Hardcore scene yet I still felt like an outcast. It seemed cliquey in the church and people stuck with their friends there and didn’t really go outside of their circle. This brought back those feelings I had as a kid. I didn’t feel like I belonged there and was just going through the motions. How could these people be so devoted to this guy that no one has seen? All of the Christians I knew seemed conceited and self centered, always talking about others and judging people while putting themselves on a pedestal. This once again pushed me from God. When I was 19 I watched my grandmother suffer for months as an illness ate her away. When she passed, my grandfather, whom I was living with to help care for her walked in to the room I was occupying and exclaimed, “There is no God,” to which I replied, “I know.” Shortly after that my girlfriend and I broke up, my parents divorced after my father was caught cheating and we left the house I grew up in. I began having a relationship with another girl who ended up getting raped at a party. All of those happened in less than 3 months. I couldn’t connect with hardcore any longer and the utter hatred I had for God was beyond anything you could imagine. Why was this happening to me? I began listening to Black Metal once again and found a connection with darkness. I became more and more involved with the darkness and with left hand religions, ultimately becoming a polytheistic luciferian. I got numerous anti Christian tattoos on my body started playing in numerous black metal bands. Roughly 3 years ago I got diagnosed as having a severe anxiety disorder after my brain started telling me I wanted to commit suicide yet my heart told me otherwise. This went on for almost a year, and it still to this day happens on occasion. It was during that time towards the beginning I started praying to someone who I denounced and spit on for years and I noticed changes in my life. The burdens I was laying on God were lifting from me at a rapid pace. After that I would pray nightly or daily or both. I’m still not open about that yet and this is the first time I’m sharing this with anyone outside of my wife and mother and a close friend. A few nights ago I had a conversation with a friend who had gone through the same thing yet he jumped full force in to Christianity, something I can’t see myself doing completely, at least not at the moment. I have a close relationship with God and have given myself to him, I acknowledge he and Jesus Christ as my saviors and put my faith in them, yet there are still aspects of Christianity that I can’t succumb to fully accept. For instance loving God over my own child. I could never let my child come to harm or put God over him just because it’s “Gods will.” That’s a pill I’ll never be able to swallow. Anyways, I few nights ago I prayed really hard and I could feel something I’d never felt before. I could feel my stress and negativity leaving my body, running down my arms and out of my fingers. Since this happened I feel an even stronger bond in my relationship. Here’s my question, over the last few years I’ve accumulated a massive music collection, a lot of which is Black Metal and a lot of that which is satanic in nature (ie Bestial Black Metal) and really hard to find and rare. I feel less comfortable with having it in my collection that I once did, yet don’t want to part with it due to my hard work of collecting it for so many years. With that said do any of you have any non Unblack albums in your collections? Or what is your feeling about having non Christian BM albums in your collection? I’ve started to order more Unblack stuff and a lot of what I’ve been listening to with it is fantastic. I’ve listened to Horde and Antestor a ton of times back in the day and both bands rule. I’ve recently listened to Vials Of Wrath, Frosthardr and Elgibbor and they have all been fantastic listens. Thanks for reading and any/ all responses will be greatly appreciated. -R
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Post by _ on Dec 12, 2018 15:20:46 GMT -6
Thanks for sharing, bro. I'm sure some of the other dudes will respond with their experiences. I really just wanted to respond in gratitude and welcome. I'm not too equipped to speak on the topic; in short, I say for myself that I try to have a healthy awareness of how the music is affecting me and to be open to the Spirit telling me yay or nay regarding whether or not to stop listening to a band. I haven't actually prayed for his guidance on a particular genre/band ... ever? But I guess I want to remain open, in the sense of if I do begin to feel convicted about a certain type of music, I listen to that conviction. That being said, there is music I stay away from based on conviction -- an example, I suppose, would be dsbm: i'm for lyrics that are honest about suicidality and how life sucks and whatnot, but I'm against any actual advocacy of suicide.
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Post by tothedeath on Dec 12, 2018 15:47:34 GMT -6
Thanks for sharing, bro. I'm sure some of the other dudes will respond with their experiences. I really just wanted to respond in gratitude and welcome. I'm not too equipped to speak on the topic; in short, I say for myself that I try to have a healthy awareness of how the music is affecting me and to be open to the Spirit telling me yay or nay regarding whether or not to stop listening to a band. I haven't actually prayed for his guidance on a particular genre/band ... ever? But I guess I want to remain open, in the sense of if I do begin to feel convicted about a certain type of music, I listen to that conviction. That being said, there is music I stay away from based on conviction -- an example, I suppose, would be dsbm: i'm for lyrics that are honest about suicidality and how life sucks and whatnot, but I'm against any actual advocacy of suicide. Thanks man! I’m the same way about DSBM. I like a few bands such as Xasthur, Coldworld and Ghost Bath. Outside of that I’m not a fan, for the same reasons as you. I’m familiar with all kinds of DSBM bands and have had the privilege of talking to many guys from bands on numerous occasions but can’t say that I’m a fan of the music. Shining is one of my least favorite bands, if not my least favorite, in the BM scene because of Kvarforth’s encouragement of suicide in people. I have numerous friends from all over the world including one girl from Sweden who suffers from numerous disorders including anxiety and depression and she’s tried to commit suicide on numerous occasions and she’s a huge fan of the bad and I’ve tried to get her to stop listening but she won’t and it’s awful. I’m all about freedom of expression but when you openly condone the taking of someone else’s life and encourage it I can’t support you, even if it’s just for shock value or to be more grim than the next guy, it’s still not excusable.
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Post by frozenfire on Dec 12, 2018 16:43:45 GMT -6
First of all, thank you for sharing your story! It's wonderful to hear and I think you've got some great questions going there. Definitely a struggle I've identified with in some ways.
For me, I grew up in a Christian home, was baptized at age 6, started to listen to 80's hard rock around that time. Rock was my thing, metal became my thing, then on to thrash, power, death and black metal. I was a "good" kid, went to church every Sunday but didn't know God. I was a hypocrite, struggling with secret addiction and empty inside. Music was my idol and that's how I filled the void in myself. I amassed well over 2,000 CDs by the time I was 30. Satanic music was not off limits in my collection. I had very few Christian bands I enjoyed.
When my life was changed and I came to know God for the first time in January 2010 my idol began to fall (along with a 18 year battle with pornography and the restoration of my marriage). I threw away Mercyful Fate "Melissa" within a week or so during a conversation with one of my brothers (always loved King Diamond!). It was a liberating moment for me. To throw it away was a rejection of an idol, the number one thing in my life. Other CDs followed in the coming months, starting with more suspect material like Dissection, Mayhem, Aborted, Impaled, etc. Even over a year I would get rid of everything I had save the few Christian CDs I had. It was a growing, progressive conviction. Even the regular stuff with nothing notably bad like Blind Guardian and Thin Lizzy collections went by June 2011 (my 2 favorites). For me it was a release. I began searching for Christian metal again. In the late 80's and early 90's I was under the impression and it was my experience that almost all Christian metal was terrible. However, somewhere in 2011-2012 I started to find more bands in styles I liked, particularly in the extreme genres as well as hardcore and punk (genres I never listened to).
For me, I haven't really been able to go back to secular music. I tried going back to Blind Guardian in 2012 but it meant nothing to me by then. It was odd for me to sing along to things that were meaningless (I'm a lyrics person). Today I have maybe 800 or so Christian albums, most of it metal of some type. I haven't really considered buying anything secular in years. Though I of course still love the sound of those bands, I just can't enjoy it like I used to.
It's not a point of legalism for me. It's just not for me anymore. I can't find value in it.
Praise God for the difference in my life beyond music! That's been the best of things. My marriage has been greatly restored, I have 3 children, pornography is broken from my life and I became a pastor 2.5 years ago in addition to my regular teaching job as a science teacher. Music has just followed with the changes.
Not sure where your convictions will lead you but that's the story for me. Thank you again for sharing!
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Dec 12, 2018 17:57:47 GMT -6
I think all of us have some secular music in our collections. Some of us collect secular music almost exclusively. People like myself, who refuse to listen to music made with evil spiritual intent, are a bit of a rarity, as far as I can tell. People are always sharing music on this site that I'm personally not comfortable with. You're not under any obligation to get rid of the secular music that you own. I felt a very deep conviction about it when I was born again in 2014; I destroyed most of my secular CDs, and sent them to a recycling center. I still have some of them, but most of them have been destroyed. (The reason for this, is my own experiences with the occult. I firmly believe there is spiritual power in the music we all make. There are plenty of secular bands who are harmless. But when made with evil intent, music carries an inherent 'evil' that can be perceived, and have real effects on us.) However, there's nothing in God's word that says we need to handle music this way. This is a matter of personal conviction, not something that is clearly, undeniably instructed to us in Scripture. About putting God first, before everything and everyone on earth, don't worry about this too much, for right now. While this is an instruction that Jesus gave to us, it's not an instruction we would conceivably need to put into practice. First, this mostly applies to people who are called to a more isolated and nomadic lifestyle. Think of the first Apostles who walked for many years with Jesus, and then traveled to other countries, translated the Gospel into different languages, etc. Not everybody is called to this kind of lifestyle. And second, Jesus used the example of parents caring for their children, in Matthew 7:9-11. God knows and understands the love that (healthy, sane) parents have for their children -- it is similar to the love that He has for us. God wouldn't call you to put side your own child, unless there were very, very extreme circumstances at hand. If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them. Whether here or in private messages. I was never into any kind of luciferianism (my old beliefs are... COMPLICATED, to say the least) but being that you come from a similar "dark", yet "spiritual" place in life, I'd be happy to try to help with anything that is confusing you.
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Post by tothedeath on Dec 12, 2018 18:29:03 GMT -6
I think all of us have some secular music in our collections. Some of us collect secular music almost exclusively. People like myself, who refuse to listen to music made with evil spiritual intent, are a bit of a rarity, as far as I can tell. People are always sharing music on this site that I'm personally not comfortable with. You're not under any obligation to get rid of the secular music that you own. I felt a very deep conviction about it when I was born again in 2014; I destroyed most of my secular CDs, and sent them to a recycling center. I still have some of them, but most of them have been destroyed. (The reason for this, is my own experiences with the occult. I firmly believe there is spiritual power in the music we all make. There are plenty of secular bands who are harmless. But when made with evil intent, music carries an inherent 'evil' that can be perceived, and have real effects on us.) However, there's nothing in God's word that says we need to handle music this way. This is a matter of personal conviction, not something that is clearly, undeniably instructed to us in Scripture. About putting God first, before everything and everyone on earth, don't worry about this too much, for right now. While this is an instruction that Jesus gave to us, it's not an instruction we would conceivably need to put into practice. First, this mostly applies to people who are called to a more isolated and nomadic lifestyle. Think of the first Apostles who walked for many years with Jesus, and then traveled to other countries, translated the Gospel into different languages, etc. Not everybody is called to this kind of lifestyle. And second, Jesus used the example of parents caring for their children, in Matthew 7:9-11. God knows and understands the love that (healthy, sane) parents have for their children -- it is similar to the love that He has for us. God wouldn't call you to put side your own child, unless there were very, very extreme circumstances at hand. If you have any other questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them. Whether here or in private messages. I was never into any kind of luciferianism (my old beliefs are... COMPLICATED, to say the least) but being that you come from a similar "dark", yet "spiritual" place in life, I'd be happy to try to help with anything that is confusing you. Thanks a ton! I’ll for sure be reaching out. I’m so glad I found this forum. Everyone has been awesome thus far. I really appreciate everyone’s help and direction. With that said. I had removed all of my black metal and death metal CDs a few days ago and tonight I started to put some back and I went to put my Behemoth CDs back and felt an overpowering sense of dread when I did, they immediately came out and went in to a sell pile. It’s a bummer because they’re one of my favorite Black Metal/death metal bands and I have everything they’ve put out, including demos and early releases that you can’t get anywhere, either way, if I feel that kind of a presence when putting them back they cannot be in my house.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Dec 12, 2018 19:24:36 GMT -6
and felt an overpowering sense of dread I know EXACTLY what you're talking about. I get that feeling when I listen to certain bands. I never really listened to Behemoth, but EVERYBODY seems to compare A Hill to Die Upon, to Behemoth. So if you get an itch for that kind of sound, check out AHTDU, I guess
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Post by Deepfriar on Dec 12, 2018 21:02:49 GMT -6
Thanks very much for sharing your story.
My experiences have not mirrored yours exactly, but I definitely ended up with a huge sense of disconnect with the 'church' scene in my teens. I couldn't seem to live up to what I believed God expected of me as I came of age, and I walked a very self-destructive path in my 20's. Substance abuse, failed relationships... it wasn't until I was around 30 years old that I hit rock bottom, said to myself, "There is no God," (seems there's always trouble around the corner after this declaration), and checked myself into a mental hospital less than 48 hours later.
But what the devil meant for evil, God turned around for good. My wife came to visit me in the hospital and told me she had accepted Jesus Christ and brought me my Bible. I turned my heart back to God and was out of the hospital a few days later.
God is full of light and love and in Him there is no darkness. Real 'darkness' is not some black metal CD's on a shelf; it is separation from God and His attributes. That being said, like many other people here I could not enjoy the same music I once enjoyed. Everyone is different though and I have some Christian friends who listen to anything and everything and have no conviction. We are not here to judge one another but to confess our faults and pray for one another.
I do have some exception bands. I listen to Type O Negative and Agalloch to name a couple. Our walk with God is not about rules or trying to be perfect but rather it is about simply beholding His perfect love for us and letting it fill us and change us.
One of the biggest things that helped me begin to feel closer to God again after I began seeking His fellowship was re-evaluating my beliefs. I had to come to a place where I no longer accepted what I had been told about God or about what He required of me just because I was taught it. I began to search for truth and for my own answers. Basically, religion is not what Jesus Christ came to give us and in fact, Jesus was Himself very much against hypocritical religious practices.
What you said about not feeling like you could ever put God's will over your care for your child is a perfect example of the poison that religion implants in our souls. God only wants the absolute best for you and your child. God is not the source of the evil in the world and He doesn't put sickness on people or harm people to punish them or teach them a lesson. That doctrine is very old covenant and believers are not under the old covenant of the law, but rather we are incredibly blessed to be partakers of Christ and His new covenant of grace. If you want to read about some very different perspectives about who God is and what the Bible really says (and more importantly, what it actually means for us today), I recommend a book by Steve McVey called, "52 Lies Heard In Church Every Sunday: ...And Why The Truth Is So Much Better". I also recommend "The Naked Gospel" by Andrew Farley, but the '52 Lies' is a great place to start and the 52 'chapters' (segments) are very short and you can easily read each one in one sitting without feeling burdened with a rigorous reading schedule.
Anyway, I've rambled quite enough. God bless, brother, and welcome. It's great to have you here.
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Post by julienbakerfan on Dec 12, 2018 23:52:39 GMT -6
I have a different experience than most of the people who have posted so far. I grew up in the church and have been a member of the church for all my life. I have dealt with sin issues and personal issues, but, thanks to God's grace and a good family background, have avoided having negative issues with drugs, alcohol, sex, etc. I personally avoid music that is occult in nature. If you had asked me why in 2011-15, I would have told you (if I was being honest) that I was afraid of demons. Now, it has more to do with just being irritated by the lyrics and themes. I don't listen to it for the same reason I don't listen to hardcore rap that's all about drugs and calling women b's and h's. I don't think that if I listen to NWA or Lil' Pump that I'll become a street thug; I just think it's not uplifting, entertaining, or artistically worthy. Similarly, I don't want to listen to lyrics that are all about Satan or gore or misanthropy, not because I'm worried about becoming a Satanist, but because I can't get behind that kind of music. So my beliefs influence my music listening, but not in a "spooky" way. I prefer black metal bands that sing about nature, philosophy, emotions, or God. My favorite mainstream black metal bands are bands like Wolves in the Throne Room, Solstafir, and other nature-based stuff. My favorite Christian black metal bands are Hesychast, Epta Astera (folk/black) and Reverorum ib Malacht. Outside of black metal I listen to a large variety of stuff, both Christian and mainstream.
I will say that I do avoid any music that gives me bad vibes. There are only two bands that I stopped listening to for spiritual reasons. One was a rap group that was giving me a "dark" feeling--I don't know whether it was demonic or just me, but it wasn't worth continuing. The other was a populist right-wing punk band whose lyrics made me angry.
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Post by tothedeath on Dec 13, 2018 10:15:00 GMT -6
I do have some exception bands. I listen to Type O Negative and Agalloch to name a couple. Our walk with God is not about rules or trying to be perfect but rather it is about simply beholding His perfect love for us and letting it fill us and change us. One of the biggest things that helped me begin to feel closer to God again after I began seeking His fellowship was re-evaluating my beliefs. I had to come to a place where I no longer accepted what I had been told about God or about what He required of me just because I was taught it. I began to search for truth and for my own answers. Basically, religion is not what Jesus Christ came to give us and in fact, Jesus was Himself very much against hypocritical religious practices. What you said about not feeling like you could ever put God's will over your care for your child is a perfect example of the poison that religion implants in our souls. God only wants the absolute best for you and your child. God is not the source of the evil in the world and He doesn't put sickness on people or harm people to punish them or teach them a lesson. That doctrine is very old covenant and believers are not under the old covenant of the law, but rather we are incredibly blessed to be partakers of Christ and His new covenant of grace. If you want to read about some very different perspectives about who God is and what the Bible really says (and more importantly, what it actually means for us today), I recommend a book by Steve McVey called, "52 Lies Heard In Church Every Sunday: ...And Why The Truth Is So Much Better". I also recommend "The Naked Gospel" by Andrew Farley, but the '52 Lies' is a great place to start and the 52 'chapters' (segments) are very short and you can easily read each one in one sitting without feeling burdened with a rigorous reading schedule. Firstly, I love Agalloch so it's awesome that you mentioned them , I discovered them about 10 years ago and ever since "The Mantle" is crucial winter listening. I also looked up the "52 Lies..." book and purchased it on ebay. Pretty syked to read it! Thanks for the suggestions and input.
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Post by Deepfriar on Dec 13, 2018 10:35:42 GMT -6
I do have some exception bands. I listen to Type O Negative and Agalloch to name a couple. Our walk with God is not about rules or trying to be perfect but rather it is about simply beholding His perfect love for us and letting it fill us and change us. One of the biggest things that helped me begin to feel closer to God again after I began seeking His fellowship was re-evaluating my beliefs. I had to come to a place where I no longer accepted what I had been told about God or about what He required of me just because I was taught it. I began to search for truth and for my own answers. Basically, religion is not what Jesus Christ came to give us and in fact, Jesus was Himself very much against hypocritical religious practices. What you said about not feeling like you could ever put God's will over your care for your child is a perfect example of the poison that religion implants in our souls. God only wants the absolute best for you and your child. God is not the source of the evil in the world and He doesn't put sickness on people or harm people to punish them or teach them a lesson. That doctrine is very old covenant and believers are not under the old covenant of the law, but rather we are incredibly blessed to be partakers of Christ and His new covenant of grace. If you want to read about some very different perspectives about who God is and what the Bible really says (and more importantly, what it actually means for us today), I recommend a book by Steve McVey called, "52 Lies Heard In Church Every Sunday: ...And Why The Truth Is So Much Better". I also recommend "The Naked Gospel" by Andrew Farley, but the '52 Lies' is a great place to start and the 52 'chapters' (segments) are very short and you can easily read each one in one sitting without feeling burdened with a rigorous reading schedule. Firstly, I love Agalloch so it's awesome that you mentioned them , I discovered them about 10 years ago and ever since "The Mantle" is crucial winter listening. I also looked up the "52 Lies..." book and purchased it on ebay. Pretty syked to read it! Thanks for the suggestions and input. Absolutely, friend. I am more than glad to help in any way I can.
And yes, I discovered Agalloch back when The Mantle was new. Agree about winter listening... just binged Agalloch this past week actually. We got our first major snow this past weekend. I wait until it snows to listen to Pale Folklore but I had already been binging their other albums. Lol.
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Post by tothedeath on Dec 13, 2018 10:49:46 GMT -6
Firstly, I love Agalloch so it's awesome that you mentioned them , I discovered them about 10 years ago and ever since "The Mantle" is crucial winter listening. I also looked up the "52 Lies..." book and purchased it on ebay. Pretty syked to read it! Thanks for the suggestions and input. Absolutely, friend. I am more than glad to help in any way I can.
And yes, I discovered Agalloch back when The Mantle was new. Agree about winter listening... just binged Agalloch this past week actually. We got our first major snow this past weekend. I wait until it snows to listen to Pale Folklore but I had already been binging their other albums. Lol.
Pale Folklore is a great album too. If you enjoy the enhancement that music brings to the winter might I suggest The Howling Void's album "Megaliths Of The Abyss." I used to live in an apartment surrounded by woods and I can't tell you how many nights I'd bundle up and go in to the woods and just sit with this album on my ipod and just watch the snow. It's fantastic!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2018 11:02:25 GMT -6
I was raised in a Christian home as well, and though my parents raised me in the church, it never felt too forced upon me. I accepted it throughout my childhood and always referred to myself as a "Christian", even though my carnal state proved myself wrong. I believe I finally received true and saving faith at age 15 during a mission trip, and life change began there. Now I'm 20, a college student at a Christian university.
Prior to my conversion, I had some music with evil intent behind it, but I hadn't really delved into black metal yet. I distanced myself from the stuff that I thought was bad, but there is still a good amount of "neutral" secular music that I enjoy. It definitely took a bit of time for me to let go of all of the bad stuff though.
I'm sorry that you dealt with cold, unwelcoming, hypocritical people in your past experiences with the church. Unfortunately that seems to be the case for many people. It's a sobering reminder that we need to be careful at all times to be loving to everyone.
I saw that you mentioned that you could never value God over your own child. I recommend reading a couple books of the Old Testament that might change your perspective. Genesis, particularly the part where God asks Abraham to sacrifice his only son Isaac, would be good for you to read. I also recommend reading Job. And it's always important to remember that the Father sacrificed His Son Jesus to pay the price for the sins of those who would believe in Him.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 13, 2018 12:12:46 GMT -6
I could never let my child come to harm or put God over him just because it’s “Gods will.” That’s a pill I’ll never be able to swallow. I can't imagine a scenario where someone would have to choose (a relationship with) God, or choose (the well-being of) a child/loved one. I've had quite a bit of loss in my life. Years of battling alcoholism, years of battling colon cancer, a divorce - being the 3 big ones I've encountered as an adult. What helps me with the "why" bad things happen to people is - there's a difference between what God wills to happen, and what God allows to happen. Besides, the struggles we overcome can drastically improve our outlook on and approach to life. I was pretty complacent and "meh" about a hot meal.... until I was homeless for a year (alcoholism), then the same hot meal (even 13 years after that happened) is nothing short of absolutely wonderful. With that said do any of you have any non Unblack albums in your collections? Or what is your feeling about having non Christian BM albums in your collection? I've been a Christian for longer than I knew what black metal was, and while I listen to quite a bit of black metal, very very little of it is Christian. No lyrical themes are off limits to me. Satanic, anti-Christian, pagan, NSBM, DSBM, etc. If it sounds good, I listen to it. I generally listen to these bands because I just don't like the "unblack" recordings as much. The reason why black metal with themes/lyrics that go against my Christian beliefs do not disturb me is, I see it as fiction. I am against murder, but a B horror movie loaded with murder does not disturb me because I know it is fiction. I see these the same way. Some Christians are bothered by satanic/anti-Christian black metal because they do think there is a "dark power" to it, and it is something more than just musical entertainment. I think if this is the belief, then they should avoid that music. There was a period of time where I felt this way, but.... no longer. Still, I am very interested in the well-being of the Christian black metal scene and my solution to listening to more of it has been making it myself, the way I like it.
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Post by tothedeath on Dec 13, 2018 16:43:56 GMT -6
I could never let my child come to harm or put God over him just because it’s “Gods will.” That’s a pill I’ll never be able to swallow. I can't imagine a scenario where someone would have to choose (a relationship with) God, or choose (the well-being of) a child/loved one. I've had quite a bit of loss in my life. Years of battling alcoholism, years of battling colon cancer, a divorce - being the 3 big ones I've encountered as an adult. What helps me with the "why" bad things happen to people is - there's a difference between what God wills to happen, and what God allows to happen. Besides, the struggles we overcome can drastically improve our outlook on and approach to life. I was pretty complacent and "meh" about a hot meal.... until I was homeless for a year (alcoholism), then the same hot meal (even 13 years after that happened) is nothing short of absolutely wonderful. With that said do any of you have any non Unblack albums in your collections? Or what is your feeling about having non Christian BM albums in your collection? I've been a Christian for longer than I knew what black metal was, and while I listen to quite a bit of black metal, very very little of it is Christian. No lyrical themes are off limits to me. Satanic, anti-Christian, pagan, NSBM, DSBM, etc. If it sounds good, I listen to it. I generally listen to these bands because I just don't like the "unblack" recordings as much. The reason why black metal with themes/lyrics that go against my Christian beliefs do not disturb me is, I see it as fiction. I am against murder, but a B horror movie loaded with murder does not disturb me because I know it is fiction. I see these the same way. Some Christians are bothered by satanic/anti-Christian black metal because they do think there is a "dark power" to it, and it is something more than just musical entertainment. I think if this is the belief, then they should avoid that music. There was a period of time where I felt this way, but.... no longer. Still, I am very interested in the well-being of the Christian black metal scene and my solution to listening to more of it has been making it myself, the way I like it. Thanks for the response! I’m more picky with my BM, no NSBM. Now I can get down with bands that aren’t openly singing about white pride but have members that are far right in their beliefs (Satanic Warmaster, Grand Belial’s Key, Burzum etc) but openly racist bands (Aryan Blood, Der Sturmer, Absurd etc) I won’t listen to. I’ve been fooled a few times by bands that don’t come off as NSBM but are (Cold Northern Vengeance immediatly comes to mind) and I quickly removed them from my collection. I’m also vegetarian (13 years) and I try and avoid bands with known animals abuse or murder. I was a huge fan of the band Manticore and then I saw them live and they crucified rats and hung them from the mics and I, like with Cold Northern Vengeance, got rid of their albums immediatly. I’ve always believed that black metal, like with punk, was made to be dangerous and I still think that but I think there are limits to it, at least for me. I had seen a few of your other posts and was hoping you’d respond as I was anxious to hear your input as you seem like you truly appreciate Black Metal of all varieties so thanks for reaching out. The responses have really eased my anxiety about everything and I added pretty much everything back in to my shelves this morning. I appreciate everyone’s help and look forward to posting here more often.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 13, 2018 17:19:37 GMT -6
Wow, killing animals on stage is quite sick. I'd be making a phone call (anonymous tipster style) if I saw that.
I'm actually not too familiar with NSBM lyrics or projects. I've enjoyed the music of random black metal on YouTube that called themselves NSBM. I didn't refuse to give their art a listen because of the title or the clearly offensive track names, but I also wasn't interested to know what they were actually saying. XD
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Post by tothedeath on Dec 13, 2018 18:02:20 GMT -6
Wow, killing animals on stage is quite sick. I'd be making a phone call (anonymous tipster style) if I saw that. I'm actually not too familiar with NSBM lyrics or projects. I've enjoyed the music of random black metal on YouTube that called themselves NSBM. I didn't refuse to give their art a listen because of the title or the clearly offensive track names, but I also wasn't interested to know what they were actually saying. XD I saw you’re from IL. Have you ever listened to the band Kommandant? They’re from Chicago and super good! I saw them open up for Horna years ago and their live show was completely terrifying. I talked to their vocalist for a while after their show. If you saw them live you’d think they were NS but they’re actually anti NS. They put up giant red and black flag banners and they all wear what look like Nazi uniforms and gas masks and the vocalist wears what looks like a Nazi uniform and a ripped up pantyhose looking thing and blacks his teeth out and muddies up his face and he does his vocals from a podium like he’s a diplomatic leader giving a speech. It’s frigging terrifying dude. It was like nothing I’d ever seen. Now we’re getting off topic of my initial question.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 14, 2018 6:43:44 GMT -6
I'm not familiar with that band, but Chicago is a 4 hour drive for me. I have also been to 2 concerts since 2003. XD
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Post by Borndead on Dec 14, 2018 17:26:51 GMT -6
For instance loving God over my own child. I used to feel like this a long time, until I realized what a huge gesture from God my loved ones are. So, naturally I came to the realization that God is the one who gave them to me and He´s the one that can take care of them (and in my case does). So, that´s why I love Him more than my brother, sister or parents, I don´t have a child but I´m sure I´d think/feel the same because I´d die for my family without a second thought. what is your feeling about having non Christian BM There´s no absolute answer, some people can´t handle listening to secular music others can. I´m part of the 2nd crowd, 98% of my collection is of non-christian artists, some are straight out satanic..like one of my favorites "Deathspell omega", but I think one has to talk it out with God and see what happens. Also, I see NSBM being mentioned, I don´t really listen to it (although I do enjoy some Burzum, Hate forest and Nokturnal Mortum) because a lot of it seems cringy to me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2018 1:47:37 GMT -6
Thanks for sharing your story. For me it is simply a matter of what is right for each person. If someone can listen to music with occult themes in the lyrics and not be swayed by it, just simply enjoy it for the sake of the music, then there is no issue. If someone feels they may be swayed by the lyrical themes in the music, then it may be something they need to reconsider. As far as them being in your collection, as long as you are ok with it I see no issue. I have around 10,000 albums in my collection. Out of those, probably only 1,000 are Christian. You just have to go with your heart.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 8:08:13 GMT -6
I would bear in mind that buying and supporting satanic music is funding a project whose goal is to release more and more material that blasphemes God. I would actually argue an objective moral standard here - that it simply is not okay for any of us to listen to that kind of stuff. Where to draw the line specifically is unclear, but leaving the door wide open to allow the enjoyment of all kinds of blasphemies is not the answer.
Music is music, yes, but there are words behind it. Words that God hates; words written by people that hate God. If we're doing all unto His glory, we ought to make it our effort to enjoy music that doesn't blaspheme Him.
There is plenty of secular music that I enjoy but I try to take care to ensure that the lyrics are acceptable. While sure, there's sometimes stuff that I'd rather not be there, it's not on the level of satanism. So like I said, though it's unclear where to draw the line, there is still a line, and I hope our consciences will tell us when we've crossed it.
(For clarity, this message isn't a response to anyone in particular, just a general reaction to several posts above this.)
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 16, 2018 10:49:32 GMT -6
I would bear in mind that buying and supporting satanic music is funding a project whose goal is to release more and more material that blasphemes God. I would actually argue an objective moral standard here - that it simply is not okay for any of us to listen to that kind of stuff. Where to draw the line specifically is unclear, but leaving the door wide open to allow the enjoyment of all kinds of blasphemies is not the answer. Music is music, yes, but there are words behind it. Words that God hates; words written by people that hate God. If we're doing all unto His glory, we ought to make it our effort to enjoy music that doesn't blaspheme Him. I disagree that there's a "objective moral standard" here. I think listening to satanic black metal and not seeing it as portrayed literal truth is the equivalent to watching a prime-time TV show drama where there's violence/murder/some other sin and not seeing it as portrayed literal truth.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Dec 16, 2018 10:52:02 GMT -6
that it simply is not okay for any of us to listen to that kind of stuff Keep in mind there are (often) free, and legal ways to listen to music, especially in the underground. If one doesn't want to show support for satanic music, but still wants to listen to it, there are often ways to do so without even pirating it. Not saying this line of thought reflects how I feel about this topic, but I just thought I should point it out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 11:37:19 GMT -6
I would bear in mind that buying and supporting satanic music is funding a project whose goal is to release more and more material that blasphemes God. I would actually argue an objective moral standard here - that it simply is not okay for any of us to listen to that kind of stuff. Where to draw the line specifically is unclear, but leaving the door wide open to allow the enjoyment of all kinds of blasphemies is not the answer. Music is music, yes, but there are words behind it. Words that God hates; words written by people that hate God. If we're doing all unto His glory, we ought to make it our effort to enjoy music that doesn't blaspheme Him. I disagree that there's a "objective moral standard" here. I think listening to satanic black metal and not seeing it as portrayed literal truth is the equivalent to watching a prime-time TV show drama where there's violence/murder/some other sin and not seeing it as portrayed literal truth. I agree that there's a difference between listening to satanic music and agreeing with the ideology behind it, but our lives are to be a living sacrifice to Jesus, and listening to that stuff just does not honor Him.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 16, 2018 12:58:07 GMT -6
When musicians make music that bashes/disrespects/etc. Christianity, they either don't believe God exists, don't believe Christianity is true, or don't believe Christianity is right/correct.
....but God does exist, Christianity is true/correct/right.... so what they're saying is fiction. Their intent, doesn't make it any less fiction. Lost people say lost things, and while we can't control their content, we can control how "true" we think their lyrics are.
To make anti-Christian lyrics (made by people against Christianity) the exact same weight of literal-truth as Christian artists who write lyrics according to what they believe, is comparable to saying "not collecting stamps" is as much of a hobby as collecting stamps.
Again, if someone wants to stay away from anti-Christian lyrics because they're personally bothered by them, I fully support and respect that decision.... but to say that ALL Christians need to stay away from them, and its wrong (sin?) if they don't - well... I respectfully disagree.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 16, 2018 13:07:34 GMT -6
listening to that stuff just does not honor Him If what we listen to should "honor" God, then the line shouldn't be drawn with clearly satanic/anti-Christian themes. That's not being consistent. After all, a country music song about beer and trucks isn't exactly honoring Jesus either. I think band members of any genre (even instrumental music) that are atheists would also be part of the same against-God lot.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 13:49:46 GMT -6
Perhaps a better line to draw would be this: don't listen to music that dishonors God.
Honestly, if you love God, why listen to stuff which actively blasphemes Him and profanes His name? We shouldn't even want to listen to that. This seems so straightforward to me. I understand that there are areas where it could be unclear - such as a "beer and trucks" song.
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Post by frozenfire on Dec 16, 2018 14:10:24 GMT -6
listening to that stuff just does not honor Him If what we listen to should "honor" God, then the line shouldn't be drawn with clearly satanic/anti-Christian themes. That's not being consistent. After all, a country music song about beer and trucks isn't exactly honoring Jesus either. I think band members of any genre (even instrumental music) that are atheists would also be part of the same against-God lot. I know you don't hold to that line of thinking yourself but, for the reasons you stated, that's why I do. There's a reason we have limited movies in our home, don't bother with television and the music choices we have are what they are. I always drew odd, hypocritical, inconsistent lines before I got saved (my church kid mentality). When I was younger I wouldn't listen to Motley Crue but Poison was fine, Led Zeppelin but not Blue Oyster Cult. As time went on it was King Diamond but not Mercyful Fate, Slayer but not Venom, Dismember but not Morbid Angel. It never made much sense. By the end it was Melissa but not "Don't Break The Oath," Reign in Blood but not Hell Awaits. I couldn't even figure it out. I just went with "does it feel wrong." Not surprisingly it seemed like eventually nothing would be wrong. When I got saved I started subscribing to the Ephesians 4:29 thinking, "only what builds up and edifies" and the Ecclesiastes 7:5 motto "It's better to hear the rebuke of the wise than listen to the song of fools." I don't even listen to Christian bands unless the lyrics do something for me. It's not worthwhile as mere entertainment. I try to spend my time on meaningful things. I want to be consistent and thoughtful for my children and our family. I have a general motto that's in 7th grade classroom at school but it bears out in my every day life as best I can. It says "Not what is OK, not what is Good but what is Best... I will think... I will say... I will do." I do think there is a real line but I'm not concerned where it is. I'm not even looking that direction. It's not even the question. I absolutely have grace for anyone that thinks differently. I certainly don't have it all sorted out. I really appreciate everyone here sharing and being cordial and kind.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Dec 16, 2018 14:14:14 GMT -6
Honestly, if you love God, why listen to stuff which actively blasphemes Him and profanes His name? Why support it? --> This seems like a fair question. Not saying it's unanswerable, but it seems like a reasonable question to ask. Why listen to it? --> I agree with this in a personal sense, but don't see an objective basis for it -- one where we should expect others to follow our train of thought. Thomas for example, is talking about the idea of listening to evil music in the same way one reads fantasy novels about vampires, zombies, and the like. He (and many others) don't view the music as inherently "evil", just being entertainment with a horror-esque twist on it. Where is the wrong in that? Again, I don't view it that way, but if someone else does, it doesn't seem like "dishonoring" to me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2018 14:25:07 GMT -6
frozenfire is right. I shouldn't even be thinking about where the line is.
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