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Post by sonofnun on Jun 9, 2020 12:54:57 GMT -6
I found this forum recently and although I'm not usually quick to join forums, the content of this one is right up my alley.
To give some background: I first started listening to extreme metal 17 years ago as a teenager. I was not raised as a Christian so I only listened to secular/satanic metal back then. It was a catalyst for a lot of rebellion against religion. I got deeply involved in the scene and started writing reviews and doing interviews for a metal webzine. My first metal band was Opeth and from there I got deeper into death metal at first and then black metal (which became my favorite sub-genre). I was a big fan of symphonic black metal like "Stormblast" era Dimmu Borgir, but I was also into some rawer, atmospheric, or depressive stuff. Some of my other favorite bands were Deathspell Omega, Forgotten Tomb, Nachtmystium, 1349, and Leviathan. After about five years in the secular underground, I began to feel very lost and spiritually empty. It propelled me on a religious quest that led to me getting rid of almost all of my secular/satanic music, exploring different religions, and eventually becoming a Christian (which I had once thought to be the least likely possibility). A few years later I entered the Orthodox Church. I had gone almost 10 years with metal having only a small presence in my life (listening only occasionally to Opeth, Borknagar, Vintersorg, Type O Negative and a few others). Then in 2018 for some reason, it occurred to me to look into Christian metal. I had only ever heard of Stryper back in my heyday and I had been indoctrinated into thinking of "white metal" as a joke. I ran across Bride and Saint and immediately realized that this music was better and more serious than I had imagined. I wasn't sure with some of the changes that had occurred in my life if extreme metal would still appeal to me, but it wasn't long before I started listening to Antestor, Vaakevandring, Crimson Moonlight, and others. Since then I've really fallen back in love with the genre in general and with black metal in particular.
I'm glad to be here and look forward to discussing this great music with some kindred spirits. I hope to find many more great CBM bands! God bless y'all.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jun 9, 2020 13:49:05 GMT -6
It's always wonderful to hear about others who were in darkness and saved! I'm a former esotericist/occultist, rescued by God from my spiritual ignorance! And what's best is, we're far from the only two people who have been through things like this in the black metal community. Anyway, welcome to the board!
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Post by sonofnun on Jun 9, 2020 14:52:42 GMT -6
It's always wonderful to hear about others who were in darkness and saved! I'm a former esotericist/occultist, rescued by God from my spiritual ignorance! And what's best is, we're far from the only two people who have been through things like this in the black metal community. Anyway, welcome to the board! Thank you! That's good to hear. I remained an agnostic the whole time I was in the secular scene, but a rather angry, anti-Christian one. My unfounded anger at Christianity led me to explore a bunch of other religions first and I got unnecessarily close to turning to Islam. Thanks be to God that he pulled me away from that path and to the Truth! I'm so thankful for the Christian metal scene and the ability to listen to the music I fell in love with without all of the negative effects the messages in the secular/satanic scene were having on me.
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Post by anfauglith on Jun 10, 2020 9:50:12 GMT -6
Hi, welcome here! Some of the points you mentioned sound familiar to me. Looking forward to read from you around here.
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Post by sonofnun on Jun 10, 2020 12:08:42 GMT -6
Hi, welcome here! Some of the points you mentioned sound familiar to me. Looking forward to read from you around here. Thank you! I'm glad to be here. I used to love forums back in the early 2000s. It's hard to find people to talk to about my obscure interests in real life, so it's nice to have these communities of common interest.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jun 10, 2020 13:51:47 GMT -6
Glad you're here! Welcome!
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Post by Borndead on Jun 12, 2020 15:59:32 GMT -6
Welcome Glad to have you here.
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Post by strangesteve on Jun 22, 2020 21:56:30 GMT -6
Christian Metal in its various genres has helped me get through a very dark time in my life ten years ago, and I have more of an affinity for the extreme and weird stuff. 😄 So, “metal for the Rock” and never, EVER look back, go back...or turn your back on our Risen Lord Jesus Christ! No matter what!!!
And if feel yourself starved for some Christian Metal from the orthodox brethren, perhaps Reverorum Ib Malacht or Hesychast can help you with that. 😉
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jun 22, 2020 22:51:10 GMT -6
perhaps Reverorum Ib Malacht or Hesychast can help you with that. Malacht are Catholic. Though there are several Orthodox people in the scene, like Pilgrim from Crimson Moonlight
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Post by julienbakerfan on Jun 23, 2020 14:39:02 GMT -6
I'm pretty sure that Elijah Tammu from Panegyrist is either Orthodox or heavily influenced by Orthodoxy, based on his lyrics. Pilgrim from Crimson Moonlight That does not surprise me given all the symbolism he had on his jacket at Audiofeed.
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Post by sonofnun on Jun 23, 2020 21:10:18 GMT -6
I've been pleased to find a handful of Orthodox bands or individuals. Hesychast is more well-known, but there's also Righteous Wrath and Γνόφος (Gospel). The guy from Winds of Terror appears to be a catechumen on his way to Orthodoxy. The guys from Diviner are Greek and confirmed that they are Orthodox. Some of the guys from Ukrainian bands are probably Orthodox too, at least nominally. Two of the members of Angel 7 are Orthodox. I've seen Fedor Buzilevich share some Orthodox posts on his Facebook. Maybe some of the people from Usynlig Tumult, Last Battle, Evroklidon, etc. are Orthodox but I don't know for sure. As you said, there may be others such as the guy from Panegyrist. The guy behind Within Thy Wounds uses some Orthodox symbolism and terminology but I don't know if he is.
I'm pretty sure that Elijah Tammu from Panegyrist is either Orthodox or heavily influenced by Orthodoxy, based on his lyrics. Pilgrim from Crimson Moonlight That does not surprise me given all the symbolism he had on his jacket at Audiofeed. I'm actually a little disappointed with what I've found out about Pilgrim. While his theology might be Orthodox, he is not a member of any canonical Eastern Orthodox Church. He appears to attend an Evangelical Orthodox Church which is a relatively new denomination which appeared a few decades ago out of the efforts of a group of evangelical Protestants who were trying to find out what the early Church would have believed and practiced and ended up moving towards Orthodoxy. Most of them actually did enter the Orthodox Church under the Antiochian Patriarchate, but a small segment refused to give up their hierarchy, etc. and became the Evangelical Orthodox Church. The book "Becoming Orthodox" by Fr. Peter Gilquist tells the story of those who entered the Church. You cannot be Orthodox if you don't belong to a canonical Church so it bothers me that he appropriates the term. Pilgrim is also alleged to be a member of "The Golden Order of the Almighty" which is a secretive sort of fraternal order. While ostensibly holding orthodox beliefs, I'm a little put off by their language and organization. I don't think it's much more than a group of friends from the Scandinavian Christian metal scene, but I could never understand what the point in all of it is.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jun 23, 2020 23:02:40 GMT -6
Pilgrim is also alleged to be a member of "The Golden Order of the Almighty" which is a secretive sort of fraternal order. He is a member. But it's not a secret society. They have statements of faith and stuff on their website.
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Post by sonofnun on Jun 24, 2020 10:29:58 GMT -6
Pilgrim is also alleged to be a member of "The Golden Order of the Almighty" which is a secretive sort of fraternal order. He is a member. But it's not a secret society. They have statements of faith and stuff on their website. I've investigated the website previously and it did help assuage some of my concerns, but my personal reaction to it is still to be suspicious and uncomfortable with it. It may not be a "secret society," but I still consider it secretive in the sense that you have to join and progress through their ranks or degrees to see their teachings. I don't like how it is organized like some kind of masonic group or that they try to use needlessly esoteric language to be profound. As an Orthodox Christian it seems dangerous and I don't see the point. My belief is that the Church is the only society we need and any kind of mysticism is only safely practiced within the confines of the Church. Perhaps I don't understand because we have that kind of community and mysticism in the Church. Maybe that is absent in their denominations and they are thus trying to fill that void.
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Post by julienbakerfan on Jun 24, 2020 17:39:08 GMT -6
I don't like how it is organized like some kind of masonic group or that they try to use needlessly esoteric language to be profound. I looked at their website today and it seemed like Masons-lite with better theology. They also had parts of their website that you could only access if you knew the "secret password." I kid you not. I'm sure they're all good people, but it seems kind of like LARPing to me. Of course, if you came out of a background where you were deep into the esoteric side of Masonic stuff, maybe that would be really appealing to you. I'd be more interested in a Christian version of the Bearded Sinners, tbh.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jun 24, 2020 20:50:56 GMT -6
I do admittedly wonder what the point of it is. Is it an evangelistic thing toward esotericists/Freemasons/etc? Is it larping? It's strange, overall. I don't think they're malicious at all, though. Their theology seems sound etc. If anything were wrong with TGOOTA at all, I'd say they'd be misguided more than outright malevolent.
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Post by sonofnun on Jun 26, 2020 18:42:43 GMT -6
I actually went through a few of the levels and got the secret passwords just to check it out. I agree that it's probably not malevolent, but it's certainly bizarre and the esoteric language just strikes me as silly. I don't know if there is an attempt to be "edgy" on purpose or what, but I think sometimes Christian bands try so hard to reclaim things that have been associated with anti-Christian causes that lines can become blurred. I suppose it's part and parcel of being into Christian Black Metal, but I don't think we need to try to reclaim masonic type language and symbolism any more than we need to try to reclaim the pentagram (Nordic Mission actually just posted a picture of Karl from Pantokrator wearing a shirt that could be construed as having a pentagram on it - could just be the angle). I guess if you want to do that then more power to you, but I wonder if at some point we just aren't directing our efforts wisely.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jun 26, 2020 21:54:48 GMT -6
I think the inverted cross is an important one to reclaim because of its meaning with St Peter.
I know Nocturnal Servant wants to reclaim the inverted pentagram though. I respect his efforts but I just don't have the same dedication to it for some reason.
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Post by julienbakerfan on Jun 26, 2020 23:15:43 GMT -6
I wonder if at some point we just aren't directing our efforts wisely. I feel like a lot of people won't be impressed by this kind of stuff. More likely they will just be confused. I doubt that most people wearing "esoteric" symbolism have any clue what it means. I'm a fan of St. Peter's Cross, mainly because it represents Peter's dedication to obeying God, which is quite the opposite of Satanism. I've thought about reclaiming the upright pentagram, but lost interest because likely no one would care. The inverted pentagram has almost become more of a generically "evil" and "metal" fashion statement than a signal of any actual Satanic/occult beliefs. Technically it's not a Satanic symbol unless it has the goat head in it, in which case it is the Sigil of Baphomet. Fun fact: One time on my Facebook I saw a guy post a picture that had a lot of Satanic/Thelemic imagery in it: Baphomet, "Do what thou will," probably "non serviam." Some other guy commented "Satanism?" Guy #1 commented "Nah dude, it's mysticism." Dude #1 was clearly confused. In retrospect, I should have reached out to him.
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Post by sonofnun on Jun 27, 2020 22:00:21 GMT -6
I wonder if at some point we just aren't directing our efforts wisely. I feel like a lot of people won't be impressed by this kind of stuff. More likely they will just be confused. I doubt that most people wearing "esoteric" symbolism have any clue what it means. I'm a fan of St. Peter's Cross, mainly because it represents Peter's dedication to obeying God, which is quite the opposite of Satanism. I've thought about reclaiming the upright pentagram, but lost interest because likely no one would care. The inverted pentagram has almost become more of a generically "evil" and "metal" fashion statement than a signal of any actual Satanic/occult beliefs. Technically it's not a Satanic symbol unless it has the goat head in it, in which case it is the Sigil of Baphomet. Fun fact: One time on my Facebook I saw a guy post a picture that had a lot of Satanic/Thelemic imagery in it: Baphomet, "Do what thou will," probably "non serviam." Some other guy commented "Satanism?" Guy #1 commented "Nah dude, it's mysticism." Dude #1 was clearly confused. In retrospect, I should have reached out to him. I think that when Christian bands try to reclaim these symbols (or use any kind of unusual, esoteric symbolism) it would be helpful if they would address it in the liner notes or somewhere else where that information can be found. I know I've been confused several times. Christian metal bands seem to have an obsession with stars (with any number of points) among other things. I have messaged bands many times to try to get an explanation for a symbol or some weird lyrics. They certainly don't owe me an explanation of their art, but I also won't listen to something I don't feel comfortable with because I don't know if there is a good reason, if there is something sketchy going on, or if they are just unaware of any potential issues. If you're gonna use an upside-down cross, please explain lol.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jun 28, 2020 12:55:47 GMT -6
Symbolism and its meanings are varied in Christianity I think. To some, there needs to be an explanation, or its use will seem questionable. To others, a symbol is just a drawing, it doesn't mean anything either way and "that's just black metal" can explain any imagery. Then again others, no matter what sort of explanation comes with it (ie: St Peter cross on a Christian metal album), the explanation could be missed or dismissed, and the symbol still perceived as evil trying to sneak in anyway. I'm all for reclaiming the upside down cross, various stars, whatever - but I don't think publishing a Christian metal album is the time or the place to do it.
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Post by Deepfriar on Jul 7, 2020 19:43:41 GMT -6
Sorry I am a little late, but a very warm welcome to the forum Mr. Nun!
I am glad to hear that you have come out of much darkness and into the light of Christ, and that you did not fall for the deception of Islam.
I was raised in a conservative Christian household but rebelled in my teens and 20's (shocking for a metal fan, right? Go figure lol)...then during a personal crisis when I hit my 30's, God revealed Himself to me and I accepted the outstretched hand and haven't looked back (though I've still failed as we all do but I know God's grace is there to pick me back up). I'm a non-denominational protestant and believe in free grace soteriology.
It sounds like you had good taste in secular music (go Stormblåst) and even better taste in the Christian scene. If you don't have Slechtvalk, The Slave Eye, and Shadows of Paragon on your radar, I highly recommend them! Many people still listen to secular black metal and it's a personal choice for each individual. I personally listen to about 95% Christian music but I do still love me some Type O Negative lol...October Rust is my #1 favorite album of all time....and hey, Peter was Catholic so it's okay, right? Hahaha...it seemed in an interview that he was seeking God toward the end so I hope to see him in heaven. It was a sad day for me when I heard the news.
I can say that in my opinion all of the members of TGO OTA are fine people and I have their literature as novelty items. If I had to guess, it is a tongue-in-cheek parody of the occultic Freemason religion. With TGO OTA, I get the impression that the deeper things of God's truth alluded to in their symbolism and thematic elements are an indication that they are serious about their faith. I do not think it is done with bad intentions but I can definitely understand your apprehension and that sort of thing may not be for everyone. I think quite often in extreme metal (and black metal specifically) deep symbolism and an esoteric slant kind of comes with the territory because it appeals to many fans of the genre. And who knows...maybe an unbeliever would approach stuff like that, think it's cool, and get exposed to the gospel. Although, I digress that it is probably not a very orthodox (no pun intended) method of evangelism...lol. Just my two cents.
It's always great to have a new face around here. Be blessed, friend!
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Post by sonofnun on Jul 8, 2020 10:49:47 GMT -6
Sorry I am a little late, but a very warm welcome to the forum Mr. Nun! I am glad to hear that you have come out of much darkness and into the light of Christ, and that you did not fall for the deception of Islam. I was raised in a conservative Christian household but rebelled in my teens and 20's (shocking for a metal fan, right? Go figure lol)...then during a personal crisis when I hit my 30's, God revealed Himself to me and I accepted the outstretched hand and haven't looked back (though I've still failed as we all do but I know God's grace is there to pick me back up). I'm a non-denominational protestant and believe in free grace soteriology. It sounds like you had good taste in secular music (go Stormblåst) and even better taste in the Christian scene. If you don't have Slechtvalk, The Slave Eye, and Shadows of Paragon on your radar, I highly recommend them! Many people still listen to secular black metal and it's a personal choice for each individual. I personally listen to about 95% Christian music but I do still love me some Type O Negative lol...October Rust is my #1 favorite album of all time....and hey, Peter was Catholic so it's okay, right? Hahaha...it seemed in an interview that he was seeking God toward the end so I hope to see him in heaven. It was a sad day for me when I heard the news. I can say that in my opinion all of the members of TGO OTA are fine people and I have their literature as novelty items. If I had to guess, it is a tongue-in-cheek parody of the occultic Freemason religion. With TGO OTA, I get the impression that the deeper things of God's truth alluded to in their symbolism and thematic elements are an indication that they are serious about their faith. I do not think it is done with bad intentions but I can definitely understand your apprehension and that sort of thing may not be for everyone. I think quite often in extreme metal (and black metal specifically) deep symbolism and an esoteric slant kind of comes with the territory because it appeals to many fans of the genre. And who knows...maybe an unbeliever would approach stuff like that, think it's cool, and get exposed to the gospel. Although, I digress that it is probably not a very orthodox (no pun intended) method of evangelism...lol. Just my two cents. It's always great to have a new face around here. Be blessed, friend! Thank you for the kind welcome sir!
It seems like a lot of us went through a phase of rebellion. I still consider my experience that even though I was not really raised as a Christian. I wonder if it's more peculiar for people who are raised as and stay committed Christians to get into Christian metal.
I really enjoy Slechtvalk, The Slave Eye, and Shadows of Paragon. Falconry is one of my favorite albums. I'm OCD so when I get into something I really go all in. I've been scouring every source for more Christian (black) metal and have discovered a ton of bands. I mostly listen to Christian metal over secular as well and I refuse to listen to anything blasphemous, but there are a handful of secular bands with neutral lyrics that I still enjoy or have returned to listening to. I've remained a big fan of Type O Negative. October Rust and Dead Again are my favorites. I think it's been confirmed that Pete returned to the Catholic Church a few years before his death. You can hear the influence on Dead Again. "These Three Things" is a warning about the spiritual dangers of abortion. I'm glad I got to see them live in 2007. It was one of the best concerts I attended.
I think you're probably right about TGO OTA. It bothered me more at first, but I don't think it's problematic enough to stop listening to the bands that are involved as I haven't seen anything that is clearly wrong.
Thanks again and God bless!
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jul 8, 2020 11:16:33 GMT -6
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Post by sonofnun on Jul 8, 2020 14:02:22 GMT -6
Yep, I've referred to your website several times.
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Post by progton777 on Jul 10, 2020 8:36:13 GMT -6
Welcome on board. I am little bit late with my response hehe
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Post by sonofnun on Jul 10, 2020 10:14:19 GMT -6
Thank you! It's never too late on a forum lol.
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Post by v3rd16r15 on Aug 3, 2020 12:20:20 GMT -6
I found this forum recently and although I'm not usually quick to join forums, the content of this one is right up my alley.
To give some background: I first started listening to extreme metal 17 years ago as a teenager. I was not raised as a Christian so I only listened to secular/satanic metal back then. It was a catalyst for a lot of rebellion against religion. I got deeply involved in the scene and started writing reviews and doing interviews for a metal webzine. My first metal band was Opeth and from there I got deeper into death metal at first and then black metal (which became my favorite sub-genre). I was a big fan of symphonic black metal like "Stormblast" era Dimmu Borgir, but I was also into some rawer, atmospheric, or depressive stuff. Some of my other favorite bands were Deathspell Omega, Forgotten Tomb, Nachtmystium, 1349, and Leviathan. After about five years in the secular underground, I began to feel very lost and spiritually empty. It propelled me on a religious quest that led to me getting rid of almost all of my secular/satanic music, exploring different religions, and eventually becoming a Christian (which I had once thought to be the least likely possibility). A few years later I entered the Orthodox Church. I had gone almost 10 years with metal having only a small presence in my life (listening only occasionally to Opeth, Borknagar, Vintersorg, Type O Negative and a few others). Then in 2018 for some reason, it occurred to me to look into Christian metal. I had only ever heard of Stryper back in my heyday and I had been indoctrinated into thinking of "white metal" as a joke. I ran across Bride and Saint and immediately realized that this music was better and more serious than I had imagined. I wasn't sure with some of the changes that had occurred in my life if extreme metal would still appeal to me, but it wasn't long before I started listening to Antestor, Vaakevandring, Crimson Moonlight, and others. Since then I've really fallen back in love with the genre in general and with black metal in particular.
I'm glad to be here and look forward to discussing this great music with some kindred spirits. I hope to find many more great CBM bands! God bless y'all.
Welcome! I'm Orthodox as well, though not great with church attendance at the moment. Also fairly new on the forums here.
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Post by sonofnun on Aug 3, 2020 16:27:32 GMT -6
I found this forum recently and although I'm not usually quick to join forums, the content of this one is right up my alley.
To give some background: I first started listening to extreme metal 17 years ago as a teenager. I was not raised as a Christian so I only listened to secular/satanic metal back then. It was a catalyst for a lot of rebellion against religion. I got deeply involved in the scene and started writing reviews and doing interviews for a metal webzine. My first metal band was Opeth and from there I got deeper into death metal at first and then black metal (which became my favorite sub-genre). I was a big fan of symphonic black metal like "Stormblast" era Dimmu Borgir, but I was also into some rawer, atmospheric, or depressive stuff. Some of my other favorite bands were Deathspell Omega, Forgotten Tomb, Nachtmystium, 1349, and Leviathan. After about five years in the secular underground, I began to feel very lost and spiritually empty. It propelled me on a religious quest that led to me getting rid of almost all of my secular/satanic music, exploring different religions, and eventually becoming a Christian (which I had once thought to be the least likely possibility). A few years later I entered the Orthodox Church. I had gone almost 10 years with metal having only a small presence in my life (listening only occasionally to Opeth, Borknagar, Vintersorg, Type O Negative and a few others). Then in 2018 for some reason, it occurred to me to look into Christian metal. I had only ever heard of Stryper back in my heyday and I had been indoctrinated into thinking of "white metal" as a joke. I ran across Bride and Saint and immediately realized that this music was better and more serious than I had imagined. I wasn't sure with some of the changes that had occurred in my life if extreme metal would still appeal to me, but it wasn't long before I started listening to Antestor, Vaakevandring, Crimson Moonlight, and others. Since then I've really fallen back in love with the genre in general and with black metal in particular.
I'm glad to be here and look forward to discussing this great music with some kindred spirits. I hope to find many more great CBM bands! God bless y'all.
Welcome! I'm Orthodox as well, though not great with church attendance at the moment. Also fairly new on the forums here. Awesome! It's always cool to find more Orthodox brothers into metal. I don't think anyone is doing great with church attendance in light of the pandemic (especially in urban areas). Anyway, glad to have you here as well!
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