Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 15, 2021 13:06:42 GMT -6
I had some interesting conversations with folks online about Predestination. ...and by interesting I mean, very interesting, except for the bizarre theories by the few of those I've encountered, who take this concept to the extreme. (which are luckily, few and far between, as far as I can tell)
The folks at my late grandmother's church (Privative Baptist), myself, most other people I've run into that subscribe to this "predestinate" (as the KJV calls it), believe that Free Will and Predestination are perfectly compatible with each other. God has a plan for the final outcome of His adopted children, His plan won't fail, and He made this plan and controls its outcome, before anyone was born. Its a precision thing - God controls that specific outcome, just for those destinies to be with Him, and the rest (everything else) is creation He set in "motion", to "move" on its own.
The folks that take it to the extreme IMO (and so far, I've met 3 people so far who were willing to die on this hill) are folks that believe Free Will doesn't exist and no other will other than God's exists, because God not only "predestined" everything and everyone, but "determines" for everyone and everything. (more like predeterminism rather than predestination because its not just the destination determined, they think the entire journey is determined too)
Their claim is, because God can control it (all powerful), He must control it. No one makes their own choices with their own will and reality is 100% God's script and God playing all the parts. Things like people being saved, people going to hell, people sinning, people being righteous, people preaching the gospel, people listening to the gospel, eating cake with a spoon on Tuesday, wearing sunglasses with red frames instead of blue ones, sitting in a chair at 3:14pm instead of 3:13pm.... Its all God marionetting everything within Himself. ....and its not just limited to people, as these folks even claim that grass growing in South America 30 years from now, is destined by God, because every molecule and atom is controlled by Him, for all time.
I can't claim to have come up with the following response, but I bumped into a theologian online that was able to smash this broken "absolute predeterminism" logic I described, with some simple math.
If the choice is only God's, then God chooses our sins.
If God ordains our sin -
If God is not autonomous to our sin -
...then God isn't holy. Period.
(and if God isn't holy, then that creates a whole other major MAJOR issue regarding our faith and understanding from the Bible)
(NLT) Romans 8:29 For God knew his people in advance, and he chose them to become like his Son, so that his Son would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And having chosen them, he called them to come to him. And having called them, he gave them right standing with himself. And having given them right standing, he gave them his glory.
The folks at my late grandmother's church (Privative Baptist), myself, most other people I've run into that subscribe to this "predestinate" (as the KJV calls it), believe that Free Will and Predestination are perfectly compatible with each other. God has a plan for the final outcome of His adopted children, His plan won't fail, and He made this plan and controls its outcome, before anyone was born. Its a precision thing - God controls that specific outcome, just for those destinies to be with Him, and the rest (everything else) is creation He set in "motion", to "move" on its own.
The folks that take it to the extreme IMO (and so far, I've met 3 people so far who were willing to die on this hill) are folks that believe Free Will doesn't exist and no other will other than God's exists, because God not only "predestined" everything and everyone, but "determines" for everyone and everything. (more like predeterminism rather than predestination because its not just the destination determined, they think the entire journey is determined too)
Their claim is, because God can control it (all powerful), He must control it. No one makes their own choices with their own will and reality is 100% God's script and God playing all the parts. Things like people being saved, people going to hell, people sinning, people being righteous, people preaching the gospel, people listening to the gospel, eating cake with a spoon on Tuesday, wearing sunglasses with red frames instead of blue ones, sitting in a chair at 3:14pm instead of 3:13pm.... Its all God marionetting everything within Himself. ....and its not just limited to people, as these folks even claim that grass growing in South America 30 years from now, is destined by God, because every molecule and atom is controlled by Him, for all time.
I can't claim to have come up with the following response, but I bumped into a theologian online that was able to smash this broken "absolute predeterminism" logic I described, with some simple math.
If the choice is only God's, then God chooses our sins.
If God ordains our sin -
If God is not autonomous to our sin -
...then God isn't holy. Period.
(and if God isn't holy, then that creates a whole other major MAJOR issue regarding our faith and understanding from the Bible)