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Post by kimmo on Jul 28, 2015 5:28:24 GMT -6
Has anyone thought of making reprint shirts from bands like Horde? Of course one would need to aquire rights and that kinda stuff but I bet "Helllig usvart" -reprint would sell quite nicely. I am not very fond picking rugged old shirts from eBay at an expensive price
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Post by Kerrick on Jul 28, 2015 10:13:47 GMT -6
Dude, I would be so down to pick up some of those! I am with you on the grungy eBay shirts... no thank you! But an Antestor - The Forsaken shirt would be awesome. Horde of course too.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 9:04:51 GMT -6
so hey, i have noticed that there is a guy in Mexico (not sure their copyright laws) has started selling exactly what you are talking about including 2 antestor tees, one is the Forsaken artwork. I also print shirts for Antestor and have a working relationship with Ronny. I asked him if this guy had permission to print these shirts or if the band was getting any compensation (we pay every band for every shirt sold). Ronny was unaware of these shirts being sold and said that the only authorized merch sellers for Antestor was Metal Helm and Nordic Mission. Now i think this is different with the older designs because they are owned by the label Endtime Productions, but that is not the point. My Point is that i know that these shirts are not authorized and that the bands are not getting compensated. I also know that people are buying them because of a photo of the shipping receipts that the shirt supplier posted. So now my question... Would you buy them? What are your thoughts. Again, i am not sure if they are bound to copyright laws there, and i do not know if copyright laws are international or just national. love to hear some thoughts on this.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 9:24:44 GMT -6
so hey, i have noticed that there is a guy in Mexico (not sure their copyright laws) has started selling exactly what you are talking about including 2 antestor tees, one is the Forsaken artwork. I also print shirts for Antestor and have a working relationship with Ronny. I asked him if this guy had permission to print these shirts or if the band was getting any compensation (we pay every band for every shirt sold). Ronny was unaware of these shirts being sold and said that the only authorized merch sellers for Antestor was Metal Helm and Nordic Mission. Now i think this is different with the older designs because they are owned by the label Endtime Productions, but that is not the point. My Point is that i know that these shirts are not authorized and that the bands are not getting compensated. I also know that people are buying them because of a photo of the shipping receipts that the shirt supplier posted. So now my question... Would you buy them? What are your thoughts. Again, i am not sure if they are bound to copyright laws there, and i do not know if copyright laws are international or just national. love to hear some thoughts on this. I'm usually not starting sentences with "People should/shouldn't", but... I think people shouldn't support 'unofficial' stuff. I understand that it can be tempting when there's no other way of getting a shirt, but in one way or another it's simply illegal and causing damage to the original artists/labels/printing companies. I mean, would be the same, if someone just started re-releasing, for example, Vaakevandring without any agreement with the band. It's making money (even though it's obvious that no one will get rich with Christian underground metal shirts, CDs and so on) from things one doesn't own.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jul 30, 2015 10:32:09 GMT -6
This topic reminds me of piracy. I think its obvious where the line is drawn in regards to what's acceptable, but I want to give another example.
Me and a bunch of guys are fans of a video game series that existed on Playstation One/Two from 1994-2001 called King's Field. One of the guys took the initiative to make himself a King's Field t-shirt because such a thing didn't exist. I'm positive no royalties were paid, there was no permission, the company generally didn't speak to us because we didn't speak Japanese... but he wasn't selling the shirts, he just made one for himself.
While I definitely think SELLING unofficial merchandise is immoral, how do you guys feel about someone making their own shirt assuming 1) none existed and 2) they weren't being sold / it was just a personal item?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 11:13:39 GMT -6
I deal with this exact question also. Being a shirt printer, i have people ask me if i could print them a one-off of a band for their personal purchase. It seems like this is difference because it is a custom print, but i am not sure. I have always ask the individual to get permission from the band since most bands are now accessible through facebook. But, i have printed some original shirts from myself with images that i do not have permission to sell. i do not think this wrong or illegal if no profit was made. I think it is okay for personal use, but i do not know if the law would agree. So i guess this is simply my opinion...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2015 11:31:57 GMT -6
I've mixed feeling about this too. Imagine a band releases a shirt. Instead of supporting this band all of their fans take the artwork/logo and create a shirt for their personal use... If an artist agrees it's absolutely okay, of course...and I guess at least most small bands wouldn't complain either way, because somebody is running around with their logo and so on). Then again I think it can't be wrong to play it safe and get a permission first.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jul 30, 2015 13:35:37 GMT -6
I agree that getting permission would be the best way to go, if that's possible.
If I couldn't get a hold of Kai, and I really wanted a No Sleep Till Megiddo shirt because I really like the label, I really don't see the harm in making myself one, assuming that were the scenario.
I do see the harm if I made them to sell them - even one shirt. ...or if I could have contacted him for permission, but didn't even try to and just went ahead and made my shirt.
To me that falls in the same category as making myself a mixed tape of favorite songs.
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Post by kimmo on Jul 31, 2015 6:58:38 GMT -6
so hey, i have noticed that there is a guy in Mexico (not sure their copyright laws) has started selling exactly what you are talking about including 2 antestor tees, one is the Forsaken artwork. I also print shirts for Antestor and have a working relationship with Ronny. I asked him if this guy had permission to print these shirts or if the band was getting any compensation (we pay every band for every shirt sold). Ronny was unaware of these shirts being sold and said that the only authorized merch sellers for Antestor was Metal Helm and Nordic Mission. Now i think this is different with the older designs because they are owned by the label Endtime Productions, but that is not the point. My Point is that i know that these shirts are not authorized and that the bands are not getting compensated. I also know that people are buying them because of a photo of the shipping receipts that the shirt supplier posted. So now my question... Would you buy them? What are your thoughts. Again, i am not sure if they are bound to copyright laws there, and i do not know if copyright laws are international or just national. love to hear some thoughts on this. I think one should get the permission of the artist or the label. I dont know about their copyright laws, but legally speaking, isnt it more about the copyright laws of the country where the music is produced? That would seem fair to me. Anyways, it would be cool if Metal helm or some other fine firms, could do reprints for bands like Horde. I should hope that one could get permission to do that.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2015 11:25:50 GMT -6
I think with that black & white design (Horde) it could also be a great 'occasion' for a little classic silk screen print edition, haha. Who knows, maybe someone should really look into this.
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Post by drawnsword on Jul 31, 2015 17:14:24 GMT -6
There is also another aspect to consider... a band/act could be very particular about there correct logo design being used and the artwork not misrepresenting there worldview.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2015 15:23:32 GMT -6
So now my question... Would you buy them? What are your thoughts. Again, i am not sure if they are bound to copyright laws there, and i do not know if copyright laws are international or just national. love to hear some thoughts on this. I'll be quite honest and say that if someone is selling bootleg shirts with artwork that I prefer to the available licensed merchandise, I am inclined to purchase the bootleg. For example, I once saw an eBay listing for an obviously bootlegged shirt with Crimson Moonlight's "Glorification of the Master of Light" artwork and I was *thiiiiis* close to buying it, and probably would have were I not already strapped for cash. Bootlegging has been a big part of metal subculture for as long as metal has been around. If these bands were interested in making money, they would be printing the merchandise people want to buy. If Crimson Moonlight decided to print their own, officially licensed shirts with the GotMoL artwork, I would happily buy it even if it were considerably more expensive than the bootleg.
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