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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2015 10:55:26 GMT -6
"A collection of metal artists promoting equal rights for all life. All downloads are pay what you want but all donations will go directly to charity." Features a lot of great bands like Wildspeaker, Antlers, A Diadem of Dead Stars and many more. blackmetalalliance.bandcamp.com
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 12, 2015 21:25:46 GMT -6
!!!!! Listened to about 4 tracks. This is awesome! Never heard of IRQR, but damn right let's end homophobia. Will buy after Christmas!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2015 11:05:14 GMT -6
Never heard of IRQR, but damn right let's end homophobia. Absolutely!!
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Post by grendel on Dec 14, 2015 2:55:18 GMT -6
The Volume 1 is supporting Abortion - interesting view of "tolerance" and "equal rights for ALL life": an unborn child has obviously no right to live...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2015 3:52:45 GMT -6
I've never heard of one single person who is "supporting" abortion in terms of "yeah, it's great/funny thing"; it's about women rights and autonomy. About rights for women facing unbearable troubles. About the compilation: "Women on Waves aims to prevent unsafe abortions and empower women to exercise their human rights to physical and mental autonomy. We make sure that women have access to medical abortion and information through innovative strategies. But ultimately it is about giving women the tools to resist repressive cultures and laws. Not every woman has the possibility to be a public activist but there are things we can all do ourselves. With a ship Women on Waves can provide contraceptives, information, training, workshops, and safe and legal abortion services outside territorial waters in countries where abortion is illegal."
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Post by kimmo on Dec 14, 2015 8:10:29 GMT -6
The Volume 1 is supporting Abortion - interesting view of "tolerance" and "equal rights for ALL life": an unborn child has obviously no right to live... I would say it is just the classic pro-choice vs. pro-life -rhetoric. I am not sure what the deal is in this case, but I would suspect that it is partly a matter of where life begins and this is debatable though I think some arguements are more valid than others.
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Post by kimmo on Dec 14, 2015 8:12:02 GMT -6
The Volume 1 is supporting Abortion - interesting view of "tolerance" and "equal rights for ALL life": an unborn child has obviously no right to live... I would say it is just the classic pro-choice vs. pro-life -rhetoric. I am not sure what the deal is in this case, but I would suspect that it is partly a matter of where life begins and this is debatable though I think some arguements are more valid than others. A double post, sorry!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2015 8:44:41 GMT -6
The Volume 1 is supporting Abortion - interesting view of "tolerance" and "equal rights for ALL life": an unborn child has obviously no right to live... I would say it is just the classic pro-choice vs. pro-life -rhetoric. I am not sure what the deal is in this case, but I would suspect that it is partly a matter of where life begins and this is debatable though I think some arguements are more valid than others. Of course these things are debatable. People can discuss it, should discuss it and they do discuss it. Nevertheless the equation "pro-choice = people who don't care a bit about unborn life" is - sorry - absurd in more than one way from my point of view (for example it simly negates/dismisses the perspective and mental/physical/social/financial situation of the woman).
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 14, 2015 9:05:32 GMT -6
"Women on Waves aims to prevent unsafe abortions and empower women to exercise their human rights to physical and mental autonomy. We make sure that women have access to medical abortion and information through innovative strategies. But ultimately it is about giving women the tools to resist repressive cultures and laws. Not every woman has the possibility to be a public activist but there are things we can all do ourselves. With a ship Women on Waves can provide contraceptives, information, training, workshops, and safe and legal abortion services outside territorial waters in countries where abortion is illegal. I think a lot of people (Christians) equate Abortion = Murder ....which is not always the case. If a woman is having a perfectly healthy baby, and she wants to abort it because - it was from a rape - She doesn't want a baby anymore - she's bored - etc. ....then that is absolutely MURDER. She should stop being a murderer and adopt to help another family. Medical abortions actually help when - The baby has 0% chance of survival - The mother IS GOING TO DIE if she carries the baby to full term. That's where the women's rights part comes in. About 10 years ago, my cousin and his wife were having their first baby. The first visit, they noticed something was HORRIBLY wrong. I'll spare the specific details on what the baby looked liked and what important organs were missing, but I'll just say that they were very conservative Pentecostal and definitely AGAINST abortion. ...but for the health of his wife, my cousin decided to medically terminate the pregnancy. Can you imagine what would have happened if abortion was 100% illegal? She COULD HAVE DIED for one, for two, the psychological and physical trauma of continuing to carry and birthing an already-dead two-headed "ball" of flesh. In countries where abortion is illegal, people do back-alley abortions to stop that kind of stuff, and DIE from that. I'm completely pro-life. That's why I'm completely for medical options.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2015 9:28:30 GMT -6
"Women on Waves aims to prevent unsafe abortions and empower women to exercise their human rights to physical and mental autonomy. We make sure that women have access to medical abortion and information through innovative strategies. But ultimately it is about giving women the tools to resist repressive cultures and laws. Not every woman has the possibility to be a public activist but there are things we can all do ourselves. With a ship Women on Waves can provide contraceptives, information, training, workshops, and safe and legal abortion services outside territorial waters in countries where abortion is illegal. I think a lot of people (Christians) equate Abortion = Murder ....which is not always the case. If a woman is having a perfectly healthy baby, and she wants to abort it because - it was from a rape - She doesn't want a baby anymore - she's bored - etc. ....then that is absolutely MURDER. She should stop being a murderer and adopt to help another family. I think most women will face different problems than being bored (even though I get your point). Forcing a woman to get a baby from a rape might have unbearable psychic consequences and personally I can't see how an abortion in this case (there are regulations in each country defining the period in which an abortion is an option anyway) can be related to murder at all. Helping another family isn't a bad thing for sure, but it seems there are more than enough children in orphanages all over the world waiting for a family anyway, so this shoudln't be a compelling reason.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Dec 14, 2015 10:45:47 GMT -6
The Volume 1 is supporting Abortion - interesting view of "tolerance" and "equal rights for ALL life": an unborn child has obviously no right to live... It can be a pretty troubling issue, can't it? If you support abortion, you're openly allowing people to end innocent lives. But if you take away the facilities that are doing abortions, it doesn't actually stop abortions. People just seek unsafe ways of doing it. Plus then there are all the people who truly need to end their pregnancies for medical reasons. So all you can do is educate people about the situation and discourage abortions, right? But they won't listen. People will still literally terminate a pregnancy just because they didn't "feel like" having a kid. And then they'll brag about it on social media with the #ShoutYourAbortion hashtag. I agree with you, those children definitely deserve to live whenever it is possible for them to, but I'm just not sure how to tackle the issue at this point. Also, take careful note: I never endorsed Planned Parenthood in this post. I have tons of issues with them, but that's a whole other issue from abortion.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 14, 2015 14:03:08 GMT -6
Forcing a woman to get a baby from a rape might have unbearable psychic consequences and personally I can't see how an abortion in this case (there are regulations in each country defining the period in which an abortion is an option anyway) can be related to murder at all. I think a lot of it has to do with the woman. I went to treatment with a woman who was raped and loved being pregnant and loves her baby. (he's like 4 now and she was a good friend) She definitely didn't like and didn't want the attack - considering she's a lesbian... She didn't see it as "forced" to have a baby, but made the best out of a bad situation. The baby certainly helped in her sobriety... I think she made the right choice and so does she. The first woman I was in a long term relationship, her older sister's first born child was from THEIR DAD (GROSS) getting her pregnant at 14. She kept the child, and the baby grew up to be an adult. She never spoke bad about her son. ...as for her father though... ____________________________________ If a woman was so psychologically distraught over being pregnant from rape/incest to the point her life and health was in danger, then I could see abortion being put on the table as a last resort - again, to SAVE the woman. ...but from knowing these two women, the trauma was the actual rape... Not the resulting pregnancy from it or raising the child afterwards. I could see how it would be possible that some women would find the pregnancy or child from the attack being too much to handle. In short, if she's completely distraught and/or in physical danger - that's when it could be ethical. My opinion, I wouldn't consider abortion a moral option just because she was pregnant (however it happened good or bad) was relatively fine (mind/body) and the motive for abortion was "I just didn't want the baby anymore".
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Post by Kerrick on Dec 14, 2015 14:33:26 GMT -6
^Word. The pro-lifers often look at solely the baby's well-being while the pro-choicers typically only look at the woman's wants/well-being. My opinion is that there are two souls within one body during pregnancy and you can't over-simplify of accounting for just one or the other life. Generally speaking, unwanted pregnancy is due to sin (be it sex out of wedlock or through a rapist or whatever). "Fixing" one sin's effects (your own sin or that of the rapist) with another sin just doesn't sit well with me... We have to deal with the effects of sin on a daily basis in other areas of life; I don't see how this should be different.
When I first saw the title, I thought maybe it was for equal rights of unborn children too. But seeing that they are rather against that... I don't think I'll be supporting any of this.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2015 15:11:41 GMT -6
I'm still not sure how to include these multiple quotes, so I'll do it like this:
"She didn't see it as "forced" to have a baby, but made the best out of a bad situation. The baby certainly helped in her sobriety... I think she made the right choice and so does she."
That's great, but this doesn't contradict what I said: IF a woman wants to keep the child, that's good. Allowing an abortion (up to a certain point of time of the pregnancy) simply means, that she isn't forced to become a mother out of a certain situation.
"We have to deal with the effects of sin on a daily basis in other areas of life; I don't see how this should be different."
Christians are free to handle it the way they want to handle it, but of course laws (of a country) are a whole different story. Just like speaking of sin doesn't make much sense when talking to non-Chrsitians, non-Muslims etc. But even if abortions are legal, Christians or other religious people are free to avoid abortions.
"I thought maybe it was for equal rights of unborn children too. But seeing that they are rather against that"
Just like Kimmo mentioned before, it also depends on the question where human life begins (that is: when do we speak of a human being). The results of these discussions are reflected in the laws about abortion or the timeframe, in which an abortion can be an option. Either way I don't think that helping women in countries, where they don't have many rights at all should equals "being against the rights of children". Especially against the background that one major part of the work of that organization is to hand out information, contraceptives and so on.
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Post by Kerrick on Dec 14, 2015 15:49:07 GMT -6
That's great, but this doesn't contradict what I said: IF a woman wants to keep the child, that's good. Allowing an abortion (up to a certain point of time of the pregnancy) simply means, that she isn't forced to become a mother out of a certain situation. Right. But the question is whether anyone in any situation should have that freedom to end another human life in that way. As you said, it depends on the answer to when human life begins. Christians are free to handle it the way they want to handle it, but of course laws (of a country) are a whole different story. Just like speaking of sin doesn't make much sense when talking to non-Chrsitians, non-Muslims etc. But even if abortions are legal, Christians or other religious people are free to avoid abortions. You're right, we shouldn't expect all sin to be illegal, nor should we impose that on others. But where do we draw the line of expecting others to follow our same moral code? How much should we allow our worldview affect our voting? Ask 20 people those questions and you'll get 20 different answers. As a Christian, I believe that all "right" comes from God and everything else is "wrong" and not of Him. So any moral/ethical question ultimately boils down to God's design - including all laws already in place. So we HAVE to draw the line somewhere... I don't expect non-Christians to not gossip. Making gossip illegal would just be silly. But when it comes to directly affecting (what I believe to be) the lives of human beings who cannot stand up for themselves... that's a clearly drawn line for me. Just like Kimmo mentioned before, it also depends on the question where human life begins (that is: when do we speak of a human being). The results of these discussions are reflected in the laws about abortion or the timeframe, in which an abortion can be an option. Either way I don't think that helping women in countries, where they don't have many rights at all should equal "being against rights of children". Especially against the background that one major part of the work of that organization is to hand out information, contraceptives and so on. I agree, helping women in countries where they're oppressed is a great thing and should be encouraged and celebrated. I didn't mean to say that Volume 3 was anti-unborn children. I just don't want to support a group that also supports things I am strongly and directly opposed to, like abortion (from Volume 1). Providing women with medicine, social equality, autonomy, and the like is good. But I disagree in helping women abort their unwanted children. P.S. to multi-quote, what I do is to hit 'quote' for the other user's post you want and then copy/paste it into another response that also quotes another user's post. Then if you want to quote a third user, copy/paste the first two quotes you've got into a third quoted response, and so on. It's a little clunky but it works alright. For quoting you, I just copied/pasted your whole quote three times and deleted what I didn't want in each instance.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 14, 2015 15:55:50 GMT -6
Allowing an abortion (up to a certain point of time of the pregnancy) simply means, that she isn't forced to become a mother out of a certain situation. But even if abortions are legal, Christians or other religious people are free to avoid abortions. Either way I don't think that helping women in countries, where they don't have many rights at all should equals "being against the rights of children". Especially against the background that one major part of the work of that organization is to hand out information, contraceptives and so on. I agree. Abortion should be a right for anyone who "needs" it from a medical standpoint. Someone who "wants" it but doesn't really "need" it, doesn't seem ethical to me. ...but that's my opinion. Just like Kimmo mentioned before, it also depends on the question where human life begins (that is: when do we speak of a human being). The results of these discussions are reflected in the laws about abortion or the timeframe, in which an abortion can be an option. My personal opinion is human life begins when the sperm meets the egg. A developing person is still a person, whether they're studying for college, learning their ABC, learning how to use their hands, or growing hands. Abortion is not something to be taken lightly - but its not something to be not-tolerated or made illegal either. (hence what I think Vol 1 is about) That being said, if my wife was pregnant with my (first) child, and complications arose to where I had to choose between saving my wife and saving my child, I would snuff out the embryo to save my wife. I think it would be better for my wife and I to try to have another child, ...than to raise my child alone without a mother. ____________________________ Back to the original post, I like these Crushing Intolerance compilations. ....musically, and its nice to see good causes from the secular scene. I'd like to put some Ankou Awaits on the 4th volume if I knew where to sign up.
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Post by kimmo on Dec 15, 2015 6:26:48 GMT -6
A civil, respectful and intelligent discussion about abortion online, now this is really something
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2015 7:15:52 GMT -6
Back to the original post, I like these Crushing Intolerance compilations. ....musically, and its nice to see good causes from the secular scene. I'd like to put some Ankou Awaits on the 4th volume if I knew where to sign up. Nice idea! Perhaps simply contact the guys (I think one of them is Paul Ravenwood from Twilight Fauna?) through Bandcamp. You're right, we shouldn't expect all sin to be illegal, nor should we impose that on others. But where do we draw the line of expecting others to follow our same moral code? How much should we allow our worldview affect our voting? Ask 20 people those questions and you'll get 20 different answers. As a Christian, I believe that all "right" comes from God and everything else is "wrong" and not of Him. So any moral/ethical question ultimately boils down to God's design - including all laws already in place. So we HAVE to draw the line somewhere... I don't expect non-Christians to not gossip. Making gossip illegal would just be silly. But when it comes to directly affecting (what I believe to be) the lives of human beings who cannot stand up for themselves... that's a clearly drawn line for me. I understand. I look at this topic like this (in general): I think rules/laws of a society should be based on rational arguments (= as well-founded as possible), so there should be a scientific and philosophical background (= a plausible line of reasoning). Religious rules are not rational in that way from my point of view (even though they can be a guideline for one's private life). So while I fully understand that a religious worldview at least might influence voting in one way or another, I'd have a very very hard time justifying laws and rules for everyone (!) with "because God" (whatever God or believe-system, so I wouldn't even want it, if it reflected some of my own convictions). Against this background and in terms of the preceding discussion I do not (!) want to suggest that the question "where does human life begin" disappears when stepping out of the "religious" frame. Of course this question has to be discussed and should not be handled recklessly.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 15, 2015 13:24:37 GMT -6
A civil, respectful and intelligent discussion about abortion online, now this is really something I can still yell "Baby Killer!!!" and bring a gun, right? [roar] HAHAHAHAA!!!!! [rofl]
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Post by Kerrick on Dec 15, 2015 13:35:04 GMT -6
Anyone see the It's Always Sunny episode where the guys go to an abortion march to pick up on women? It's pretty great.
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Post by kimmo on Dec 16, 2015 9:01:42 GMT -6
Anyone see the It's Always Sunny episode where the guys go to an abortion march to pick up on women? It's pretty great. I dont recall, but I do remember the Beavis And Butthead -episode where they went to a feminist rally and saw a banner that said "Womens rights, now!" and one of them said "Women, right now! Yeah,yeah!"
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