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Vektor
May 5, 2016 13:29:04 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 13:29:04 GMT -6
Edit: the band has an anti-religious song, just so you know. Thank you NI for pointing this out to me.Holy crud, this band is amazing. I discovered them this morning. They're progressive thrash metal, which isn't usually my thing, but this is awesome. The first song I listened to (Tetrastructural Minds) had an awesome instrumental intro, and I was bracing myself for when the vocals would come in. I feared that they would be a cringe-worthy falsetto, but they're actually really good! It's black metal-reminiscent growling. vektor.bandcamp.com/album/outer-isolationThe lyrics seem to be mostly sci-fi stuff. I've read very little, but here's the MA page: www.metal-archives.com/bands/Vektor/87803
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Post by Thomas Eversole on May 5, 2016 15:49:21 GMT -6
Sounds good to me!
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Vektor
May 5, 2016 19:25:05 GMT -6
Post by nocturnaliridescence on May 5, 2016 19:25:05 GMT -6
They have an anti-religious song, "Dark Creations, Dead Creators". Not sure if that matters to either of you guys.
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Vektor
May 5, 2016 19:53:35 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 19:53:35 GMT -6
Thanks for pointing that out. I didn't notice it before. That sucks. I'm definitely not buying this now...
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Vektor
May 6, 2016 9:02:31 GMT -6
Post by Thomas Eversole on May 6, 2016 9:02:31 GMT -6
I get not "supporting" anything with anti-Christian lyrics. (moreso literally instead of suggesting) ...but refusing to listen to ANY release (that's really liked) because they have a jab towards Christianity on one song from one album - doesn't make logical sense.
I did some research and Tetrastructural Minds is apparently an older track, from their debute in 2006. Their first two albums seem to have that "space is scary" type lyrics to all their songs. Even the 2011 album where that "Dark Creations, Dead Creators" song is from, seem to be the same theme except for that one track where they opine, suggestively, against Christianity.
Not saying I'd do this, but roll with me on the hypothetical here - what if I made an Orationem song that was an angry prayer, venting my frustration and anguish toward God? If it didn't have the Christian stamp of approval, I feel like you guys would dismiss the first 3 albums the same way, even though the lyrical themes are completely different.
That's nothing more than throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
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Post by Kerrick on May 6, 2016 10:53:14 GMT -6
Well, I think there's a difference between an angry prayer and an outright anti-Christian song. (I haven't read the Vektor lyrics so maybe they're just "angry.") The book of Psalms has tons of theologically incorrect outcries from David and whoever, but it's poetry and verbalization of emotions, not doctrine. And yet it's still the inspired Word of God. Just because it feels like God isn't there, it doesn't mean He actually isn't because we know He always is. The same could go for song lyrics.
But as for not listening to an entire catalogue of a band's music because of one song... I don't think that's entirely illogical at all. I tend to do the same. It's not because those other songs are somehow inherently evil now, but rather because that emotional connection I have with the music is to a large degree severed when I know that the people behind the music hate something that is so central to my being. Conversely, I find myself connecting deeper with music when I know that I am ideologically aligned with its source. Example: I find myself listening to Vials Of Wrath far more than Wolves In The Throne Room. Stylistically, they are relatively similar and WITTR's material is by and large very, very good. However, I don't connect with WITTR emotionally like I do with VOW and therefore don't listen to them as often. I consider WITTR pretty neutral in terms of lyrics but if they released a song that was straight-up blasphemous, that'd probably sever my connection with their music entirely and I'd no longer be able to enjoy the rest of their music as I had previously. Obviously, it'd be ridiculous to make specific presumptions/determinations about people's individual faiths and beliefs so there is naturally going to be a line drawn as to what's realistic... but I don't think it's wrong to be picky when choosing which bands to listen to when it comes to this stuff. Everyone has their own feelings/beliefs towards these things and I'm not claiming that there's a right or wrong necessarily, but for me personally, I don't enjoy listening to music that I know comes from a place of being vehemently against the most important and central part of my life.
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Vektor
May 6, 2016 13:19:56 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on May 6, 2016 13:19:56 GMT -6
I haven't read the Vektor lyrics so maybe they're just "angry." Here are excerpts from the song. It's more than just angry:
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Vektor
May 7, 2016 9:57:01 GMT -6
Post by Thomas Eversole on May 7, 2016 9:57:01 GMT -6
But as for not listening to an entire catalogue of a band's music because of one song... I don't think that's entirely illogical at all. I tend to do the same. It's not because those other songs are somehow inherently evil now, but rather because that emotional connection I have with the music is to a large degree severed when I know that the people behind the music hate something that is so central to my being. Tossing a whole band's discography because of a bad song is like tossing a bushel of apples because there's a rotten one in the middle. The logic isn't in the tossing, but how much you like apples. If you're meh about it, then its logical. If you really like apples and these are awesome apples, then tossing them all is illogical because of one rotten one. In addendum, its illogical to take something personally that's not meant to be personal. "Dark Creations, Dead Creators" could just as easily be about their space lore - why tailor it to your faith? For one, Christianity doesn't have "creators" (plural), for two, death to religion isn't a non-Christian concept. Many Christians don't care for it themselves. Third, I respect any personal conviction, but I'll speak my mind against something goofy. If someone refuses to listen to Iron Maiden because the design for Eddie came from a decapitated head on a Vietnamese tank, I respect that - but that's a extremely goofy reason to not listen to a massive archive of good music. Finally, this whole bit wreaks of bias because its given time in the first place. My family used to make fun of my brother as a kid because he hates onions. He loves mom's chili, but stopped eating it when he figured out (after eating it for years) there were onions in it. I mean, anti-Christian themes in metal are as old as metal itself. Why keep testing the waters where the theme is prominent if there's a personal conviction? Just because a band doesn't have anything anti-Christian in the lyrics doesn't mean they themselves don't have an extremely anti-Christian belief system themselves. If you're going to dig to make sure your convictions clear, then why only dig as far as the lyrics? I mean, secular bands members from the secular metal you're listening to could have a worse hate in their hearts. I think its hypocritical to not look for onions if you hate onions because you don't want to stop eating your favorite dish. I certainly hope no one consciously does that.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2016 10:18:15 GMT -6
Tossing a whole band's discography because of a bad song is like tossing a bushel of apples because there's a rotten one in the middle. The logic isn't in the tossing, but how much you like apples. If you're meh about it, then its logical. If you really like apples and these are awesome apples, then tossing them all is illogical because of one rotten one. It's the emotional disconnect that Kerrick mentioned. That's what kills the music. When I find out that a band has an anti-Christian/religious lyrics, their music just doesn't feel as good anymore. The only band I can think of that I still enjoy that has a blatantly anti-religious song is Uniform Choice. They had a song called "Religion is Recruiting" and it's about how they're tired of being told to convert and everything by a whole bunch of different religions, and they just wish they'd be left alone because they think it's all "insanity". It's a viewpoint that I can respect a little more than "death to all religion now", and it attacks other religions besides Christianity too, so I can still enjoy the music. But their one album I own still feels tainted to me because of that song. In addendum, its illogical to take something personally that's not meant to be personal. "Dark Creations, Dead Creators" could just as easily be about their space lore - why tailor it to your faith? For one, Christianity doesn't have "creators" (plural), for two, death to religion isn't a non-Christian concept. Many Christians don't care for it themselves. I doubt they would have written that song for their space lore if they didn't also have that view for the real world. Also, the Christians that I know who say they're "not religious" or "it's a relationship, not a religion" tend to be the ones who don't care much for following rules. Seems like a cop out to me. Edit: I agree that having a relationship with God is important but we also have to try to honor His commands, because that's part of the relationship. Just wanted to clear that up. Third, I respect any personal conviction, but I'll speak my mind against something goofy. If someone refuses to listen to Iron Maiden because the design for Eddie came from a decapitated head on a Vietnamese tank, I respect that - but that's a extremely goofy reason to not listen to a massive archive of good music. I wouldn't call this Vektor anti-religion goofy at all. God is extremely important to me. Finally, this whole bit wreaks of bias because its given time in the first place. My family used to make fun of my brother as a kid because he hates onions. He loves mom's chili, but stopped eating it when he figured out (after eating it for years) there were onions in it. I mean, anti-Christian themes in metal are as old as metal itself. Why keep testing the waters where the theme is prominent if there's a personal conviction? I can completely understand why your brother stopped eating the chili. In his mind, it wasn't the same once he found out that there were onions in it. Perhaps it started tasting different to him. It would be something merely psychological; sure, the chili itself isn't different, but in his mind, it's not the same. Just because a band doesn't have anything anti-Christian in the lyrics doesn't mean they themselves don't have an extremely anti-Christian belief system themselves. If you're going to dig to make sure your convictions clear, then why only dig as far as the lyrics? I mean, secular bands members from the secular metal you're listening to could have a worse hate in their hearts. I think its hypocritical to not look for onions if you hate onions because you don't want to stop eating your favorite dish. I tend to dig a little further and typically look into the band members' other bands using MA. Let's think for a second about WITTR, one of the few secular BM bands I listen to. The guys aren't Christians, and we know that. Maybe they're nihilists. We don't know. But as far as we're aware, nihilism isn't in their lyrical themes. So at least if I buy their albums, I'm not directly supporting nihilism.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on May 7, 2016 10:39:22 GMT -6
I can completely understand why your brother stopped eating the chili. In his mind, it wasn't the same once he found out that there were onions in it. Perhaps it started tasting different to him. It would be something merely psychological; sure, the chili itself isn't different, but in his mind, it's not the same. That's goofy.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on May 7, 2016 11:22:29 GMT -6
The only band I can think of that I still enjoy that has a blatantly anti-religious song is Uniform Choice. They had a song called "Religion is Recruiting" and it's about how they're tired of being told to convert and everything by a whole bunch of different religions, and they just wish they'd be left alone because they think it's all "insanity". It's a viewpoint that I can respect a little more than "death to all religion now", and it attacks other religions besides Christianity too, so I can still enjoy the music. But their one album I own still feels tainted to me because of that song. Is "stop religion" really that much different than "death to religion"? I mean, in context, stopping religion kills it. ...and killing religion in effect stops it. I'm blown away that Vektor's track is out of bounds but Uniform Choice's isn't. That makes ZERO sense. Just seems like nit picking to me.
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Vektor
May 7, 2016 13:34:25 GMT -6
Post by Deleted on May 7, 2016 13:34:25 GMT -6
Maybe Uniform Choice just seems acceptable to me because they also have an ideology that I agree with (straight edge) and are very positive in a lot of their other songs.
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