|
Post by Thomas Eversole on Feb 15, 2015 21:42:44 GMT -6
What are the views you have regarding profanity? The bible doesn't dictate what words (per say) are "profane", but there are multiple biblical references regarding not using obscene or profane words. ...what draws the line though? The crowd you're with? The culture in general? The media and what it deems is PG, PG13 or R? Is it not even the word at all, but how its used? As an example, lets look at the word "shit". Now, is it because I typed those 4 consecutive letters that instantaneously commits me to that sin on this forum? Or is it tied to the culture I'm in? Is it based on the shot in the dark that that word may offend someone here? (My sincere apologies if that word or other examples in this thread does) Hanging around with Antestor the week they played Cornerstone (1999 I think?) - the keyboard player stated that he had "to take a shit". Gard (remembered his name because he's the one I talked to the most) stated to him, "That's a bad word here, don't use it." We had a laugh that he could use the word poop or doo-doo instead, and they went on to say that the word "shit" in Norway is like saying the word "dirt". Its not profane or obscene to anyone. They also said a different word that was profane in their language. I don't remember what it was, but I repeated it to make sure I heard the word correctly, and they confirmed that I had just said a "bad word". I had never heard it prior to or afterward. They weren't offended (as they just taught me the word) and neither was I, still not knowing what it meant. What are your views on it? Myself, I rarely use "profanity", I can't at work - unless I want a final written warning and two shift suspension. (being that 90% of the people have microphones attached to their face) ...but I don't exclude any words from my vocabulary. Regarding being offended, I take extreme offense to being flipped off (middle finger) and someone calling me a "motherfucker". I usually have an IMMEDIATE emotional reaction, something I can feel even from a picture. (ie: like this picture of Extol below - double whammy to me because 1) Christian band 2) disrespectful gesture) ...on the other hand, if middle fingers or "motherfucker" happens in a specific context. (observing it/not directed towards a person at all, its 100% obvious its meant to be a joke or a razz, etc.) it doesn't bother me one bit.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 8:15:37 GMT -6
First: I have to agree that the culture matters. I once read stuff on the internet like "Band xyz can't be a christian band, they use the word f*** in one of their songs", which I think is very confusing, I just haven't got the feeling that's it's such a big deal in Germany if you don't use the really "bad" swear words. Maybe a bible verse at the beginning:
9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. 11 Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12 My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water. (Jakobus 3, NIV)
I think it depends on HOW the profanity is used: If you hit your toe and swear just out of the moment, I think it's no big deal, maybe it's not the best reaction, but then you're just angry at the situation, not as if you really curse at someone and want to hurt him/her! And God's prophets often used in a way "profane" words. I think if some christians spoke to pharisees and sadducees like John The Baptist did, many christians would be against it. But we sould be cautious to not cross this line, I think we've all been in a situation in which we said the wrong things or at least thought about it.
|
|
|
Post by Thomas Eversole on Feb 16, 2015 8:49:41 GMT -6
I remember being a bit (just a little bit) taken back from Kekal's "Beyond the Glimpse of Dreams" where one line in the lyrics states "Why the hell does it matter anyway?". I think it was track 9. Its always intrigued me a bit how (conservative?) Christians will listen to a sermon where a preacher talks about accepting Christ and staying out of hell (using the word) and that its openly accepted. ....but if someone says "What the hell?" or "Hell if I know", then that's profane. The scripture you posted makes a very good point, even though I've never heard the book of James being called Jakobus. ...and I think that applies fully to cursing (at) people. Even if its not societal profane words, I think even some common words used in a "potent" matter AT anyone, is just like cursing them. Like saying "YOU SUCK!" towards someone could have the same weight as using "curse words". I NEVER use profanity around my family members, even though they'll do some "well placed" PG13 type swearing a few times a year, definitely not AT anyone. ....but I sometimes think profanity, sometimes, is really hilarious. Maybe its the taboo that adds to it? Maybe its because of the bizarre use? The 15 second video below, even though that person definitely doesn't have Tourette's and its completely staged, is extremely funny to me. ...and even though I would never do this around someone who doesn't know me well, (prett my fiance or brother) I find myself imitating what he said when offered Twizzlers, if I accidentally drop something or get water on my shirt, etc. (I'm just being a goofball and it makes them laugh)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 11:00:14 GMT -6
[...]even though I've never heard the book of James being called Jakobus [...] Ehhm...embarrassing ^^ I didn't look up the English name for the book, I just took the name it has in a German bible, I think that's just the latinized version of the name Jacob (or Jakob, how it is at least mostly written in German) ^^ And according the video: It is hilarious, just looking at the way they stare at each other at the end
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2015 15:05:31 GMT -6
I curse more than I should. Sometimes directed at others out of anger, more times than not when venting to someone about a situation though. It is one of the harder things to let go of in my opinion. I would like to take the words out of my vocabulary. That being said, I do watch movies/tv shows that include it, and often find it to be amusing,
|
|
|
Post by Thomas Eversole on Feb 18, 2015 2:02:34 GMT -6
I think anger is a major ingredient to a out of control mouth, for anyone. I'm slow to anger, but I'm certainly not immune to it.
Luckily, 90% of my profanity (which isn't much on a daily basis) isn't out of anger or at someone. Its usually for the sake of humor, or just descriptive vernacular.
Although today (yesterday) I did get PISSED enough to spit fire. Personalities before principles at work.
|
|
|
Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 5, 2015 12:28:37 GMT -6
If my vacuum cleaner did not have an electrical cord, I would probably wouldn't swear at all on days I clean floors in my house.
|
|
|
Post by Kerrick on Aug 5, 2015 13:16:11 GMT -6
LOL. In college, I had an electric lawnmower. My roommates and I determined that it was a two-man job: one to mow the lawn, and the other to hold the extension cord so that it didn't get mowed over...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 13:36:47 GMT -6
For me, personally, I don't cuss, not because I think it's a horrible, unChrisitian thing to do, but rather because it's just not a habit that I ever picked up. No one in my family ever did it, none of my friends ever did it and as such I never did either. I'm not offended by it either though, seeing it / hearing it used occasionally doesn't really mean anything to me at all. Now HOW it's used and the frequency that it is used can really annoy me. When someone goes on a tirade and cusses up a storm ... no, sorry, chances are very good I will tune them out partway through, not because I'm offended, but just because I don't feel like listening to or reading twice as many words as I need to. Also I tend to be annoyed by people who think cussing means a person is inherently "more honest" or "unfiltered". No, I could make myself do it, I could add in every word imaginable, but that would be the exact opposite of being "honest" and "unfiltered", because by doing that I would be going out of my way to change my way of communicating in order to seek approval from someone else.
So, basically if someone cusses, I am not going to assume they are not a Christian because of it, but if they do it too much, I will be annoyed and if they somehow think it makes them better, in any way than a person who doesn't do it ... they are an idiot.
As far as flipping off cameras and such, I will quote what I wrote on another site a while back, as it sums up what I think of it pretty well:
"It’s such a worthless, pointlessly common thing to do anymore. It won’t be long until people will stop saying “smile for the camera” and start saying “okay, stick up your finger for the camera!”
Every 2nd grade class picture will be filled with smiling little kids with their fingers out … your next family reunion will have your great grandma flippin’ off everyone’s cell phone pics … Mickey will be flipping the double bird whilst standing next to a little 5 yr old dressed as a faerie princess at disneyland. The little princess will of course be proudly displaying her own “magic wand” for the proud parents to put up on Facebook."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 15:01:37 GMT -6
I am not perfect and have cussed a lot in my past. I still if I am VERY ANGRY or in a arguement AND am angry will cuss a lot. But on normal everyday basis I don't. I find it interesting however this example. Have any of you seen Full Metal Jacket? It is a vietnam war movie and shows a typical thing that happened during that time and in Bootcamp especially I think there were very few sentences that had more than 4 words that weren't cuss words. I don't know that the bible says it is wrong to say cuss words, for example some of our cuss words did not even exist back in the days the bible was written, but I have a hard time thinking that it is ok for a Christian to talk like Ronald Lee Emery did in the movie Full metal Jacket. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_Metal_Jacket. At the same time it isn't like the bible gave us a list of words to not say or use really the ONLY thing was to not take the Lords name in vain.
|
|
|
Post by Kerrick on Aug 5, 2015 17:43:07 GMT -6
My perspective is much in the same of Hezekiah's. I very rarely swear, but sometimes there really aren't any other ways to communicate well a thought without a four letter word. I never swear out of anger though (I'm really just not an easily angered person haha). I'm certainly not offended by it, though I was brought up in a household that didn't use those words and I know it offends others. As a Christian, we are held to higher standards (whether we like it or not) - both by our own brothers and sisters in Christ as well as non-Christians - and so I think it's good to err on the side of respect. If a non-Christian who is offended by swearing hears a known Christian swear, they'll immediately judge that Christian as being no "better" or upstanding than anyone else. Is that correct for them to do so? No... probably not. But regardless, I'm sure it happens.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 19:39:09 GMT -6
Just to follow up on the thread in Ascendant. I play in Ascendant which is a danish blackened death band. In one of our songs we use the word "shit". I want to write a few words about that not to justify why but rather to explain the thought proces. First of all. the time we as band members and christian went through that time was characterized by a lot of existentialisme about our faith. in Denmark it is common to use shit and fuck i our everyday vocabulary. I think christians in Denmark, if the allow the use of profanity those two words would be the first to allow. I noticed (correct me if I am wrong) that people outside europe tends to use either hell, or gosh (what I see just a replacement for the word God) so the word shit is translated if not the same way, then almost the same way as poop in danish. we have a common expression saying "det er skide fint" (it is shitty great) which actually means that something is really great, and in that danish that word is not seen as profanity. But still we had a long debate if we should use that lyric or not. we focus a lot on showing all sides of what life as a christian is, the great parts of life and the parts where everything seems to fall down upon us. this combined with an agreement of all bandmembers being able to contribute with lyrics, even though the others didnt totally agree with them. for me that lyric is not bad because of the word shit, but it is a bad lyric because it contribute more to divide christian from non christian and create hate (pushed to the extreme). this is the same reason I think most of Impending doom lyrics are bad. I wrote the lyric to shadows of wealth which message some of the other guys didnt agree on. so our agreement was to put or individual name on the lyric so that people could ask the individual person about it. even though I use the word shit on a daily basis, (and in my opinion it is not profanity) I am still tired of it being a part of our lyric. (we all are in the band!! even the guy writing it) because as Thomas said it is not supposed to be in a christian lyric. I know this is somewhat a paradox even though that we dont like the shit in the lyrics, we still sell the album. mostly because we see this whole album as a part of our lives. there is a lot of things with the music and the lyrics we would have done in a different way today, the same goes with our lifes. so for me that lyric still contribute to something positive in me even though it is not a possitive lyric, because it reminds me about the hate we as bandmembers had 4-5 years ago, and it reminds me how God took that hate away, just like he will take away all the "bad" hate in my life today. and just to make this even more double standards, I replace shit with another word everytime performing this song live. It could be interesting to hear your opinions about using words as gosh, oh my god, hell etc. because this is some of the words that a christian in denmark would never use, and correct me if I am wrong, a lot of American christians use these words it is way too late in Denmark, so if something is hard to understand or it simply doesnt give any sense then just tell me
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2015 19:51:11 GMT -6
when looking it through I dont even find my own answer satisfying. so if you want a deeper explanation then just tell me to or best of all we can make a skype call.
|
|
|
Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 5, 2015 20:37:11 GMT -6
Like what Larry said, I don't think using the actual "swear words" is necessarily sinning.
Profanity directed AT someone is unacceptable, to me, as a Christian. Its disrespectful, and part of the Christlike formula is to treat others the way I want to be treated. With respect!!!
Me saying "I've had a shitty day" or yelling "buttfuck!!!" at a table when I stub my toe on it, isn't disrespecting anyone. If anything, it has an element of comic relief and there is scientific evidence that profanity DOES reduce pain.
To me, its all about tact.
You don't tell "dead baby jokes" to a young mother. You don't just strike up a conversation about cannibalism with a conservative vegetarian. You don't ask your mother how much she weighs. You don't cuss around people who would obviously be offended (or at least "taken back") by it.
I'm with hezekiah st. raven. I've known a few people who swear EXCESSIVELY and I've always heard - excessive profanity is how a simple mind explains itself. I would lump it in with the same annoyance as someone who uses a lot of filler when they talk.
Anyone have a friend that "uh" "um" "uh" "uh" and then you find yourself counting them? I have one former co-worker that I end up not listening to what they say and find myself counting how many times they say "like". Another one, "you know".
Example: "I was, you know, up in the Joliet Chicago area for about 10-15 years. I spent about $300 at the bar every weekend, you know?" Its not old twice in two sentences, but when its 26 times in 30 sentences, I'm ready to smear my ears with jam and tie myself to an anthill.
More than anything, I cuss at home - at inanimate objects. ...and its strange cussing too. I got mad at my vacuum cleaner and told it that I was going to throat punch it in the dick. My wife laughed.
|
|
|
Post by Deepfriar on Sept 1, 2015 8:22:45 GMT -6
[PROFANITY WARNING]
I don't believe to "curse" in the Bible has anything to do with damn, shit, or fuck.
[/PROFANITY WARNING]
When Peter "cursed" and said that he didn't know Jesus, he was pronouncing a curse on himself (basically saying, "May I be cursed if I know the man!"). That's right, folks, Peter didn't say "Damn it I don't know Jesus!" Research the culture and the Greek meaning of "curse" and you will see.
I say 'bad words' often at home alone with my wife, mostly during comedic rants (she gets a kick out of it). I say 'bad words' around people whom I know are not offended by it, but I do not use 'bad words' around people it offends (1 Cor. 8, Rom. 14).
I believe it's all about perspective. If you feel that it is a sin or a bad word and it offends you, then you should not do it. Otherwise, a word is just a word and no big thing (unless you are using your words to condemn people which is of course not very nice and the book of James agrees with me!). I struggle with talking smack myself, so I am not 'holier than thou.' I think it's a daily struggle to talk kindly about people (even when they are not right in front of you) when you work with the public all day long.
Anyway, that's my two cents. Have a !#$%#$% awesome day!
|
|
|
Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 4, 2015 16:16:15 GMT -6
I say 'bad words' often at home alone with my wife, mostly during comedic rants (she gets a kick out of it). I say 'bad words' around people whom I know are not offended by it, but I do not use 'bad words' around people it offends (1 Cor. 8, Rom. 14). Totally agree. ...and as long as my wife keeps laughing when I shout "BUTTFUCK!!!!!!!!!" when I trip over something, knock something over, spill something, etc. in the house ...I'll probably keep saying it. HAHA!!
|
|
|
Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jan 24, 2016 23:39:03 GMT -6
Language doesn't have objective rules to it. Languages change over time, and the meanings of words change over time. The meaning of a word could be changed with something as simple as a hashtag movement. If all of us started calling money "hippo", the word "hippo" would eventually mean "currency", and it wouldn't be wrong, because all words are just man-made social constructs, other than however God communicated with Adam and Eve. Other than (whatever language that was), words aren't objective phenomena with established traits or unchanging definitions. So words play a similar role in our lives to the food dedicated to idols mentioned in 1 Corinthians 8. Such food was clean to eat, but it was discouraged because people who didn't understand scripture as well, may have interpreted this action as Christians taking part in idolatry and then be tempted to stumble into the same practices. So we should try to avoid swearing. Because except for words clearly meant to be insults, "swears" aren't objectively bad, but by using these words, people who don't understand this, may misunderstand our intentions and be tempted to stumble.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2016 5:47:38 GMT -6
In general, I hear Christians swear a lot less than non-Christians, and from what I've seen, the people who swear the most (like literally in every sentence they speak) tend to be the ones who are furthest from God.
The sound of the words just annoys me. They just sound intrinsically gross. Whenever I hear one, it just triggers a slight bit of anger in my brain. It's not enough to really amount to anything, but it's enough to annoy me.
Do the words themselves have any power? No. But I know that it would be unacceptable for me to use them. I guess I associate them with my days of non-Christianity, back when I used them in almost every sentence.
|
|
|
Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 28, 2016 23:46:15 GMT -6
Profanity is so weird from somewhere else though.
"Scummer, pox and wound rot!" roared Tunstall, slamming his fist down on the bed. "Gods cursed the pig-tarsed mammering craven currish beef-witted bum-licking gut-griping louts that did this to me! May every flea, leech and hookworm in all creation find and feast upon them!"
|
|
|
Post by Deepfriar on Jan 29, 2016 6:08:28 GMT -6
Lol do you read TOR fantasy Thomas? Sounds like the would-be "cuss words" from a young adult fantasy novel.
|
|
|
Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 29, 2016 9:51:40 GMT -6
I have no idea what that is. Haha! I was seriously going to post something completely different (like how weird it would sound if "hamster" was a swear word), saw that on Google and couldn't resist!
|
|
|
Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jan 29, 2016 10:53:10 GMT -6
Recently in this thread, we've had a philosophical rant about language, a personal testimony, and "Scummer, pox and wound rot!", all regarding the same subject.
For some reason, I find this variation in posts to be humorous.
|
|