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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2016 11:35:24 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2016 12:50:39 GMT -6
The sampler was released. Doesn't sound exactly how I anticipated, but this should be a good album.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 3, 2016 14:45:02 GMT -6
Sounds way better than the new kLaNk stuff. Geez, that new song of his is terrible.
I might pick this up. I was big into this band before I found death metal.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 20:59:35 GMT -6
Another song was released a couple days ago. It's alright, but I like the title track, Contagion, and Neophyte a lot more...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 14:43:12 GMT -6
The album came out today (which I think is a day early for some reason). I'm downloading it right now.
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Post by Deepfriar on Dec 8, 2016 16:36:27 GMT -6
I'll have to check this out on YouTube, not sure I want to drop $ on it right now. I've already got the new Orationem, Slechtvalk and Renascent to buy and I'm trying to not get out of hand again lol.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2016 22:08:01 GMT -6
After reading the lyrics to Outside In, I am almost certain that Klayton is a Christian again.
"Father have mercy on your son Always bring me home again However far I've run Father grant wisdom for within So I no longer have to be On the outside looking in"
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Post by Deepfriar on Dec 9, 2016 5:51:11 GMT -6
It's possible. I will check it out this weekend.
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Post by drawnsword on Dec 10, 2016 3:58:09 GMT -6
After reading the lyrics to Outside In, I am almost certain that Klayton is a Christian again. "Father have mercy on your son Always bring me home again However far I've run Father grant wisdom for within So I no longer have to be On the outside looking in" Nice, good to know, have you seen any other lyrics confirming this?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2016 11:03:36 GMT -6
No, but I heard that there was a Celldweller song that may have positively referenced God.
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Post by blake on Jan 5, 2017 8:05:31 GMT -6
After reading the lyrics to Outside In, I am almost certain that Klayton is a Christian again. "Father have mercy on your son Always bring me home again However far I've run Father grant wisdom for within So I no longer have to be On the outside looking in" Nice, good to know, have you seen any other lyrics confirming this? I've been listening to this album lately too. And been listening to Outside In a lot. Good song and the lyrics really grabbed me, as it sounds like these lyrics are coming from someone who struggles with sin and desires to be close to God
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 8, 2017 16:10:36 GMT -6
Apparently, according to Klayton, Circle of Dust was never a Christian band - he just joined a Christian label because of opportunity. You can read about that here: iprobablyhateyourband.com/interviews/interview-klayton-celldweller-circle-of-dust-scandroid/Also, starting at 1:55 in this video. (LOL at him saying he would have joined a satanic label if that was the opportunity) I think this is a decent example of "context pareidolia". Pareidolia is defined as "a psychological phenomenon involving a stimulus wherein the mind perceives a familiar pattern of something where none actually exists." It sounds like people just assumed its a Christian band or he's a Christian because of where his band was (scene), further compounded by his ambiguous lyrics. Because of this, I wouldn't consider Circle of Dust to be a Christian band - at all... From a listening standpoint, that's of no consequence to me. I think you all know I listen to all good music regardless... but I think because of what Klayton says, listing this as a Christian album (on any format of coverage) is misleading.
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Post by barabbas on Jan 8, 2017 18:40:07 GMT -6
Apparently, according to Klayton, Circle of Dust was never a Christian band - he just joined a Christian label because of opportunity. Thanks for sharing this. It's interesting that he never says he isn't a Christian. That would be a really easy (and definitive) thing to say. Of course, he may not be saying it because he wants Christians to continue to buy his albums, and he doesn't want to turn them off. As soon as he says "I'm not a Christian," then he loses part of the market. I'm not saying he is a Christian, but a lot of what he says in these is compatible with the "Christians-in-a-band" model. In fact, when he says that everything he does is based on his beliefs, that's compatible with saying he's a Christian and his music is informed by that. I tend to be skeptical that that is true, but he didn't exactly clear it up as much as he could have. He sure made a lot of music on Christian labels. Just from these two pieces of evidence, I'd say either 1) he's fairly mushy in what he believes isn't a Christian or 2) he has some kind of Christian faith and has thought it through very carefully in relation to his art. Which I guess means that what he said there could mean anything.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 20:20:35 GMT -6
The Christian influence in the early CoD material is still undeniable. I remember the song Consequence from the self-titled featuring a spoken line saying "you cannot ignore God's word without one day suffering eternal consequences". My guess is that he's afraid that outright saying that he is a Christian will turn off part of the market, as will outright saying he's not a Christian. Honestly at this point, I'm not sure which he is.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 8, 2017 22:19:29 GMT -6
The Christian influence in the early CoD material is still undeniable. I remember the song Consequence from the self-titled featuring a spoken line saying "you cannot ignore God's word without one day suffering eternal consequences". As true as a statement as that may be, it wouldn't have to be a Christian lyric to include something like that. ...afterall, Black Sabbath has "I don’t believe that God is dead" in one of their newer songs, but that hardly makes it "Christian". I think the answer to the "Christian band" question was answered in his very first sentence responding to the question in the interview I posted. "Circle of Dust was never a Christian metal band." Period. He could have just stopped right there. Artists know their own music better than anyone else. Who are we to continue thinking it is faith based music when he says it isn't? I mean, I see God all the time in stuff that's not meant to be "Christian". We don't choose the messengers He sends us after all... Klayton being a Christian or not isn't really the point here. I get what he's doing - he's trying to make this about his ART, not his faith (or lack thereof) I had a similar attitude regarding Ankou Awaits - the difference is, I never publicly gave a political-ish "unanswer" when the topic of faith came up. Since he won't say his faith or lack of faith publicly, I don't really think it will do much good to speculate in hoping he is a believer, or worrying he's not. It still won't change the music and his desired presentation of it. I think the bottom line is, if you get something spiritual out of it regardless of its context, good for you... You should keep doing that. ...but lets not keep saying his art is one thing, when he says it isn't...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 22:31:34 GMT -6
As true as a statement as that may be, it wouldn't have to be a Christian lyric to include something like that. ...afterall, Black Sabbath has "I don’t believe that God is dead" in one of their newer songs, but that hardly makes it "Christian". There are loads of other examples on the self-titled of Christian themes.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 8, 2017 22:38:23 GMT -6
If you interpret Christian themes in Circle of Dust, you are privileged to get even more out of his music than he intended. If you say its still a Christian band when he says it isn't however, I disagree.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2017 22:40:10 GMT -6
What I'm trying to say is that I doubt the veracity of Klayton's claim. I think he could be misrepresenting the original lyrical intention of Circle of Dust.
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Post by barabbas on Jan 8, 2017 23:07:19 GMT -6
Part of the problem in these discussions is that "Christian band" can mean a bunch of different things. In at least some meanings of that phrase, just because he says it isn't, doesn't mean it isn't. (That is, it could be that it isn't in one meaning of the phrase, but is in a different meaning of the phrase.) I recognize that I'm saying that intention of the artist alone doesn't solely determine the meaning of the art. (Big discussion, I'm sure.)
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 9, 2017 11:21:43 GMT -6
I think he could be misrepresenting the original lyrical intention of Circle of Dust. Misrepresenting... so you think he's lying in saying Circle of Dust isn't a Christian band? LOL In at least some meanings of that phrase, just because he says it isn't, doesn't mean it isn't. Well, if someone gets a Christian message out of Circle of Dust, I agree with that. Personal perception can be everything. Labeling it as Christian music (for all those seeking Christian music) because someone gets a personal Christian message from it... I highly disagree. This is just like someone making their personal conviction as a rule for all. (ie: Because I'm an alcoholic, its a sin for everyone to drink) While what the artist calls their music isn't everything, its certainly not nothing. If 1,000 people say Circle of Dust is Christian when the (one) artist says its not, do the listeners trump the verdict? What if 1,000 people said Circle of Dust was punk music - does that just mean its punk? I don't think so. This has got to be extremely frustrating for him. On a smaller scale, I've experienced the same thing with Ankou Awaits. One of those Christian black metal Facebook pages included Ankou Awaits in their list of Christian black metal bands. I actually found myself reasonably annoyed by this. Obviously as a Christian, I support Christianity. Obviously as a Christian black metal musician (Orationem) I support Christian black metal. ...but Ankou Awaits isn't Christian music. Sure, the lyrics on the 2015 album have positive metaphorical message, sure there's nothing negative in the lyrics, sure I have an open faith... but that music (by me) wasn't intended, presented, portrayed to be Christian music. Its just fun, no-strings-attached extreme metal. Saying Ankou Awaits is a Christian band because I'm a Christian is like saying I work a Christian job because I'm a Christian. My job may very well be done the quality of it is because of my faith and other standards, but its just not intended to be a faith based job as a genre for everyone.
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Post by blake on Jan 10, 2017 9:05:33 GMT -6
What I'm trying to say is that I doubt the veracity of Klayton's claim. I think he could be misrepresenting the original lyrical intention of Circle of Dust. I agree, the old music undeniably had Christian influence lyrically, from some of the audio clips used on the self titled, to him covering Living Sacrifice songs on Metamorphosis. Also listening to CellDweller I've for some time sensed from his lyrics that he has a longing for God or to return home so to speak. In particular the lyrics to Celldweller - Lost in Time:
Excerpt:
I can't deny I question why And I cant help but feel like I be lost in time
A problem I'm not solving Eternally revolving I wandered from the pathway Praying you will come to save me
I feel lost in time but if I wait for direction my lifetime will pass me by I feel lost in time I think if I live for forever this feeling will never die
---
I found out a few years ago that my wife is Klayton's cousin. It blew my mind when she told me "I have a cousin who was in some Christian band." She asked her mom and it was circle of dust. I don't think shes ever met him, nor have I, but mother in law referred to him as her "nephew Scott". I have tossed around the idea of trying to interview him for CoD, but I doubt he will accept.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2017 9:09:59 GMT -6
I found out a few years ago that my wife is Klayton's cousin. That's really cool!
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 10, 2017 11:15:56 GMT -6
I think I'm a bit more hard nosed in regards to Christian lyrics. I think my skepticism comes from my experience with bands that are openly against Christian values, and through discernment, I've come to realize lyrical discussion of things like "prayer" or "asking for salvation" certainly isn't exclusive to Christianity.
I want to provide an example. Here's are the lyrics to a full song:
Seems to say some things that coincide with Christianity. Mentioning worship, asking for freedom from bondage, asking for eternal life, salvation from damnation... there's also no profanity or anything that stands out as a red flag. While I can (and do) take a positive faith-growing influence from those lyrics ON A PERSONAL LEVEL, I can't ignore the fact that these lyrics are actually from a satanic black metal band. (a few tracks later, there's the glorification of genocide, suicide by hanging and the devouring of infants)
In conclusion, these lyrics provide a Christian message to me personally because they are ambiguous enough to coincide with my faith. However, there's no way I would try to convince to anyone that this is in fact a Christian band/song/music.
I'm in the same boat with Circle of Dust. If you guys get a PERSONAL message from it, rock on. ...but because of ambiguity, the artist publicly denouncing this is NOT Christian music, despite being faith-friendly, I (still) disagree with this being considered "Christian music" as an across-the-board classification to be filed with other Christian music.
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Post by _ on Jan 10, 2017 20:52:50 GMT -6
^Word, bro. Well-said.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 11, 2017 11:08:36 GMT -6
Thanks! I actually started this same discussion on the CMR. I think its both a blessing and a curse that you folks here walk away from the pot after a certain amount of stirring. The CMR however, won't hesitate to dig their hooks in if need be. While I totally love that you guys won't stir to a fault like they will, this is the one instance where the CMR being the CMR is a good thing. Afterall, its not extremely healthy for me to always be right. I know I've stressed emphasis on the ball being in the artist's court regarding being a "Christian band", but I agree with an exception to the rule. Stryper Michael Sweet has stated in more than one occasion that Stryper isn't a Christian band, but I most certainly would call it a Christian music. He stated that because he doesn't like labels. "If you are going to label a band a Christian band, then you got to label all the other bands." (his point being calling bands with Christians in them a "Christian band", you might as well call a band full of drug addicts a "drug addict band") Meh. I get what he's trying to say and I will admit that logic is kind of clever, but its really not accurate of him. I mean, when 95% of your songs are religious themed, and you have Isaiah 53:5 under your logo, and you say your logo is a religious anagram, and you throw out bibles at your shows, and you wear 777 on your gear, and you say prayers after your shows - its a lot harder to consider you NOT a Christian band... ...especially since the "drug addict band" doesn't bang heroin on stage. That being said, I think MS detracting from the Christian label has to do with another aspect of defining Christian music. The Christian music market. Stryper is however, a notable presence in the secular scene. I imagine they wouldn't have anywhere near the reach if they were like so many other Christian metal bands and preaching to the choir. That's a good thing in my opinion. Regarding Circle of Dust, one of the CMR-ers stated that the first 2 Circle of Dust albums are definitely Christian, Machines of our Disgrace is definitely not. *shrugs* So many ways to split a hair...
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Post by barabbas on Jan 17, 2017 0:51:04 GMT -6
I hadn't walked away from the stirring just yet, but I don't have regular opportunities to post. (Which is why I post in clumps. I read all the new posts every day, though.)
I'm not sure that I'm disagreeing with you Thomas, and I don't really have a strong opinion about the status of CoD. I do think that what makes a band Christian is a very interesting topic.
Let me give a couple of examples.
#1 Horrific Majesty. Lord Horrific, or whatever it was he called himself, has said that Horrific Majesty was never a Christian band. He claims that he only said he was a Christian to get onto a Christian label (since the secular ones were turning him down). The lyrics of one track (at least) of Shadows Eternal is faith-themed. And he has a statement in the notes about fully supporting the unblack scene and being against satanism (or something like that). He admits that he lied. However, the problem becomes: when was he lying? Was it when he released his album on a Christian label? Or was it when he says that he was never a Christian or had a Christian band.
This isn't the same as CoD. But it's similar. He says CoD was never Christian band. I count three Christian labels on which he has released music. That's quite a bit of association for only wanting a label and not being a Christian band.
#2 Lo-Ruhamah. They explicitly stated they weren't a Christian band. But . . . they were Christians who met and formed their band at a Christian college. They signed to a (at least nominally) Christian label. The named their band after a name from the book of Hosea. Their first full length was called "The Glory of God." Their lyrics deal with biblical themes. And so forth. If they simply say they aren't a Christian band is that sufficient for them not to be? If all the evidence points in a different direction? (If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, and walks into a lemonade stand . . . )
Again, this is different than CoD, but it is an interesting case about what makes a "Christian" band. In this case, I think that simple denial is insufficient. That's why I think it's potentially insufficient in the case of CoD.
Got any grapes? [Strikes black metal pose]
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Post by Kerrick on Jan 17, 2017 11:38:06 GMT -6
(If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, and walks into a lemonade stand . . . ) ... Got any grapes? [Strikes black metal pose] [rofl]
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jan 17, 2017 12:06:46 GMT -6
#1 Horrific Majesty. . . . However, the problem becomes: when was he lying? Was it when he released his album on a Christian label? Or was it when he says that he was never a Christian or had a Christian band. I would say it's the first one. The song titles on his releases before In Shadows Eternal ("Astral Death March", "Journey to the Astral Plane") and also the lyrics to one of his songs tell me that his music was never actually Christian.
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Post by barabbas on Jan 17, 2017 12:14:22 GMT -6
#1 Horrific Majesty. . . . However, the problem becomes: when was he lying? Was it when he released his album on a Christian label? Or was it when he says that he was never a Christian or had a Christian band. I would say it's the first one. The song titles on his releases before In Shadows Eternal ("Astral Death March", "Journey to the Astral Plane") and also the lyrics to one of his songs tell me that his music was never actually Christian. Yes, that seems right to me. But it was more of an illustration for the CoD discussion.
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Post by avjr on Nov 30, 2017 15:02:22 GMT -6
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