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Post by Kerrick on Jan 16, 2017 14:39:27 GMT -6
Quoting Benjamin from the CBM 2017 thread, let's continue this discussion here. without giving a history lesson I have found the christian scene very bland. There isn't much originality, most bands follow the trends instead of making them. The whole exclusivity and sheltering of only listening to christian music really turns me off because it only encourages the mundanity of the output. When christian bands only listen to christian bands and are influenced by christian bands, the scene grows stagnant and vapid really quick. The whole focus on the message rather than the music really turns me off as well. I have nothing wrong with a good message.I saw Hotel Books once and was impressed with his message after he stopped a song mid-set and started talking and ended the show right then and there leaving some of the audience on tears with the words he spoke, even though finding out later that he's really just a superb con-man who gives the audience what it wants. I believe music should be the priority first and foremost. If you're gonna do something, do it the best you can while fitting the necessary aesthetic or motif. A Christian band that do get this right is Crimson Moonlight. Also most christians that I encounter in person and on facebook (excluding you guys) are misinformed, sheltered, ignorant pricks. It's always Demon Hunter this, For Today that. Impending Doom is grindcore. Matty Mullins is totally NOT doing is solo project to fit a hole in the music market to cash in. Oh things were better when all we had were Rez band and Holy Soldier. oh right wasn't ZAO noisecore? I don't listen to black metal, that stuff is so satanic, I listen to only unblack metal even though it is so extremely limited in it's styles. I also like listening bands like The Agony Scene, just because they were on Solid State means they are christian, right? Wait underoath released three albums before They're Only Chasing Safety? I have found a good number of christians that don't fit that mold, but they are all pretty much 5+ years older than me and one guy alone lives in the same city as me (the dude has pneumonia right now and could use some prayer btw). I also have problems with the whole "my band must be my mission" mentality. In fact I kinda want to start a band that would be the antithesis of that idea. My parents are missionaries and I've attended two of their missionary trainings and have sat in several classes with them, just so you know that I have some knowledge on the subject of missions, more than the average american christian. I like Martin Luther's quote on the matter of what a Christian tailor looks like "I make these clothes because God has bidden me do so, so that I can earn a living, so that I can help and serve my neighbor." I despise the "you'll be judged for what you do on judgement day" theology because it turns christianity into legalism instead of focusing on "is what you are doing right now separating you from your relationship with christ." I'm currently working on what having relationship with christ looks like in a band setting. Some of this is personal for me too. I have faced rejection over and over again these last three years as I was trying to join worship bands,join a christian metalcore band, help a christian folk musician friend and have been turned down every single time. Lance and Thomas are my christian metal buddies and has shown me nothing but acceptance which means a lot to me, if only y'all were local. I also geographically live in the wrong part of America too. It seems most of the the christian metal bands are east of the Mississippi. Over here I still have Consuming Fire (who don't tour), Stryper (like they would ever come to Fresno), Deliverance/Join the Dead (something could happen here since the drummer lives in my city), Flesh Incineration (who I'll visit when I tour Washington) and Gryp (the only local christian band with a front man who really doesn't listen to metal or share any similar taste as I). I'm still thankful that there are these bands,but this shows just how empty and futile the christian scene is out here. If I start a band that is devoted to Christ in the lyrics and the imagery and wants to be the next big thing on Rottweiler Records, how will I possibly find band members to begin with? After that, who would come to our shows? What nonbeliever wants to hear me cut into my 20 minute set to start on a 5 minute monologue about how jesus is cool. I'm already stuggling with attendance to begin with The band I would would most want to take influence from would be Departe. they aren't really a christian band, I'm not sure all the members are anyway, but the vocalist/guitarist/main songwriter is. They don't play christian shows and actually play some anti-christian titled bills. They don't make music to entertain the christian community unlike bands like Family Force 5. They make music period. I pretty much stay away from newer christian music. I'm on this forum for the friends and a different perspective than I'd get from a secular audience. I still listen to bands like Skillet, Hawk Nelson, and tobyMac simply for nostalgia. I like to stay informed on christian music trends and understanding where christian music is going but sometimes it really makes me want to throw up. I also study older stuff and find gems like Tantrum of the Muse or Veil Torn. The wanton lust song I'm writing is going to be about masturbation and the fight I'm in with battling it, asking God for help but still going back to porn, a weekly almost daily battle the cripples my spirit and continues my numbing depression. Even though it's not a christian band there isn't much music out there addressing the issue. Pretty much Lust Control and A Hill to Die Upon (Unyielding Anguish) are the only bands that brought it up and then Debtor mentioned the word masturbation in one of their songs. I'm not choosing this topic because it fits hole in the market (yay capitalism) but because this is what's on my heart and really what real life looks like to me. The struggle is my reality. Hope that helps. I think Holyabbatoir hit the nail on the head here: Thank you for your honesty. I think many of us, musicians or artists or not, struggle with authenticity. Many of us see, rightly, the lack of authenticity in artistry of the CCM scene. Most "Christian" bands are rip-offs of secular bands and that hasn't changed for decades. Where we (I) get into trouble, is when we (I) myopically see my self as better than others because I perceive myself to be more original or authentic. I'm not. The goal of the Christian life is the glory of GOD and fidelity to the gospel message. I am of the opinion that this should shine through in the excellence with which we ply our craft. When we see those who exploit "Christianity" for personal gain, we should call them to task. Make the music you want to make, make it real (masturbation and the struggle with lust is about as real as it gets) and you'll find an audience. Remember, too, there is always an audience of One. This is a good struggle to have (questioning authenticity, not masturbation althought we can all probably identify with that) and to take to the Lord repeatedly. Keep fighting! Thoughts?
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Post by thevociferator on Jan 16, 2017 16:02:25 GMT -6
something else I want to mention is the whole trend to make christian versions of "x". We need a christian black sabbath, a christian immortal, a christian hatebreed, a christian three days grace, as if these bands are pure evil and should be avoided like the plague. I am not a fan of sheltering and i am a product of some hardcore conservative sheltering. Never listened to secular music until high school, learned all the swear words at church, didn't even know that being gay was a thing until I was 15 oh and the only video game I was allowed to play was John Deere American Farmer.
Sure there are bands that can harm one's relationship with Christ of those being stuff like Archgoat, Aryan Kampf 88 (no one should listen to this trash), or Clitorape.
But the idea that just because a no one in a band is a christian and makes some good music should be thrown out I think is stupid. God can speak through any medium He so chooses, He doesn't need a band to be Christian so He can speak into people's lives. One of the purposes of Christian music is provide an easier spiritual pathway for one to connect with God (e.g. worship), but that doesn't mean secular absolutely doesn't have that. Sure some music is a pathway for demonic forces to speak as well, so it's all about discernment. And just because someone doesn't have relationship with Jesus, doesn't mean God didn't give that person a spiritual gift of music. There are some really talented nonchristians and some really untalented christians.
What I am in favor of is for Christians to not make a version of "x" band, but to make their own place in each niche area. That's what I'm working on in my band(s). That's what Departe, An Open Letter, Those Who Endure, Slechtvalk, and Dagon are doing. That's what Virgin Black did. That's what Horde and antestor originally did, however a bunch of christians ended up rallying behind them and stayed cowering in their shadows.
I have an exploratory soul who aches to go where none have gone before, that's why I'm into such unknown underground genres, so of course I'm going to encourage other to break barriers, break the rules, dance to the beat of one's own drumbeat, and do something different. It's who God created me to be. I'll admit I'm not fully mature and probably will never be, so there's still discernment I need as far as boundaries and my relationship with Christ.
But as of right now, to my knowledge, I am the only Christian in a couple scenes of music. I'm on several record labels that have no other christians, I have been kicked off a label because the owner learned that I'm "pious." Now that I'm in this position (and before I give myself pride) I need to ask myself what to do in this position. how can I let God bless my label owners, concert-goers, labelmates, fellow bands, and even my drummer who doesn't know Christ? That is where I'm at.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 16, 2017 16:27:47 GMT -6
Thanks for creating a new thread for this Kerrick! Epic mod win right there.
I guess I don't share the same level of angst regarding the Christian music scene anymore. Maybe having an entire year of my life wasted because of a medical problem reshaped what I worry about. I know that's my issue though and I own it.
Ben, everything you said contains truth... but some of it needs evidence or its just going to sound like a stereotype.
ie: How many people have said Impending Doom was grindcore and Zao was noisecore? ...and then how does that number match up with people who don't mislabel it? If its 50 of the 53 people you've talked to about this, I'd say you're definitely onto something. If its 3 dudes for one and 5 for another and you know hundreds of people that listen to those bands... not so much.
I'm sorry you faced rejection when trying to join Christian acts, but that's hardly a reason to list it as a contributor regarding your problem with the Christian music scene as a whole. Same with lumping people into the "misinformed, sheltered, ignorant pricks" category because a lot of them like Demon Hunter or For Today. People are happier when they're free to like what they like.
Regarding originality, its all personal perspective. You like getting blown away by hearing new authentic music? Well, so does the guy that just heard Antestor for the first time and has never heard anything like it. On a personal note, Orationem may sound like typical black metal to any black metal listener, but when I shared "the shoutout song" with a bunch of Koreans playing Ire: Blood Memory, I had a couple of them tell me it was quite distinct and they'd never heard anything like it before.
One more thing and then I'll shut up.
Regarding masturbation, that is a downfall for a lot of people - its been one of mine as well. (Ever heard the adage 95 percent of people masturbate and the other 5 percent are lying? LOL)
Its addicting. While I won't rock the boat in this thread on exactly how wrong it is, I think the bigger issue is more about self-gratification through a self-centered act than it is just about touching what's in your pants. All of us want what we want, when we want it, and we want it right now and we have a problem with people who stand in the way of that - and that definitely applies to more than just knocking our junk around. Easier said than done to stop, but when we focus on others and things of a spiritual in nature, (defeating "self") it does get better.
In regards to addiction, I once had someone tell me a bottle of booze never knocked anyone down and forced its contents down their throat. The same applies regarding genitals jumping into people's hands. We have a choice. That's where we ask ourselves, are we doing everything we can to get better? Do we need outside help?
For myself, I needed all the help I could get and it still took years to get better... ...but I got better.
I hope you don't take offense to anything I said Ben. I'm not really a beat-around-the-bush answer kind of guy, so I dropped it like it was hot.
I'll be praying for you... as well as your friend in your city that has pneumonia.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 16:29:37 GMT -6
something else I want to mention is the whole trend to make christian versions of "x". We need a christian black sabbath, a christian immortal, a christian hatebreed, a christian three days grace, as if these bands are pure evil and should be avoided like the plague. To be honest, I don't see this as an issue, as long as the band doesn't go so far as to plagiarize its secular variant (like Imperial Dusk did). While innovation is nice, I don't need all the music I listen to to be cutting-edge and original. That becomes more and more difficult to accomplish with each passing day. I can tell you that I'm not alone in my lyrical convictions. I won't listen to anything blatantly anti-Christian, Satanic, Pagan, etc. However, I've been more willing recently than I have been in the past to listen to secular bands whose lyrics are not published (like Mesarthim). So the way I see it, trying to emulate secular band X but with Christian lyrics is a way of increasing the musical diversity within the Christian scene, which you said before is something that we lack. It's not some kind of closed-mindedness that prevents me from listening to bands like Mayhem and Deathspell Omega. It's a desire to avoid music that I think is spiritually detrimental and negative. I believe that music can have a legitimate impact on one's psyche, and I'd rather that impact be positive (Christian music, or other music with positive themes) or neutral (a lot of "safe secular" bands fit into this category in my opinion) rather than negative. I understand your pushback against sheltering, and it seems that you personally experienced a pretty extreme version of it. But to me, it only seems logical for a Christian to want to avoid Satanic music.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 16, 2017 16:58:31 GMT -6
I can tell you that I'm not alone in my lyrical convictions. I know. ...and while I respect it and all other personal convictions, there is one thing I don't understand. There are Christians who will watch a movie that features a depicted murder. who will also watch a TV series/drama that features a depicted murder. who will also read a book that features a depicted murder. ...but a SONG that features a depicted murder? Danger. Red alert. Recoil from the hot flame. Etc. Why?!?? LOL
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2017 17:07:01 GMT -6
I think it depends on how the author is trying to portray it. If the show/movie/book depicts the murder in such a way that expresses disapproval of murder, then it's fine.
Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like a lot of the murder-depicting music that some Christians avoid tries to glorify the murder.
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Post by thevociferator on Jan 16, 2017 17:15:13 GMT -6
How many people have said Impending Doom was grindcore and Zao was noisecore? I'll start taking screenshots when I see it. It happens about once a month when I really try discussing grindcore on christian music groups. rejection when trying to join Christian acts, but that's hardly a reason to list it as a contributor regarding your problem with the Christian music scene as a whole Yes it is anecdotal and personal and a bad example to use for generalizations. I think I started with saying that to start another section and maybe it wasn't a flush transition. I see a correlation between the rejection and the geography, how there'just aren't (m)any options for to be in a christian band here, so I'm in a secular one. originality, its all personal perspective Yes it is, that's why I would want more christians to have experience in the secular realm: a more well-rounded knowledge on music.
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Post by thevociferator on Jan 16, 2017 18:11:58 GMT -6
Okay so I do think I'm attacking this too hard. Let me try to explain where my heart is.
Big Picture: what is most important in life? How can I best live my life?
Small Picture: I want to add to a compilation my best composition, however that would mean using a song that is with a band originally intended to be secular and I don't want the association to impact my impact in the overall secular scene.
question #1: will my christian association really affect my impact in the overall secular scene? As long as I won't be a huge jerk, probably less than I think it would. question #2: what do I want to accomplish with this band? at first Wanton Lust was meant to be a one off joke project that then turned into a legit band when I realized that songwriting came a little easier through this medium than my main band desolare. I was given one open door for a record label which is making me think wanton lust could get some traction. This band is still a trashy nobody and I think it should be treated as such until we have quality recordings. This really is a question I'm struggling to answer because this band really wasn't supposed to ever exist, yet it does. In a parallel universe I was given the bands members to get Desolare underway and wanton lust never would need to exist, but that is not this reality in this universe.
hmm somehow that inner turmoil was combined with the grudge against the christian scene
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Post by _ on Jan 16, 2017 18:14:49 GMT -6
Also most christians that I encounter in person and on facebook (excluding you guys) are misinformed, sheltered, ignorant pricks. It's always Demon Hunter this, For Today that. Impending Doom is grindcore. -- Not sure if I did this quote business right. Anyways, thanks to all for contributing great thoughts! Here is a small one from me: I imagine this would be frustrating. I think a reality is that most people are mis- and uninformed on most things, even things they enjoy. If I had a Facebook back in the day, I probably would have posted, likely with misinformation, about the bands I liked, including Impending Doom (a huge influence on my music tastes) and For Today (which was the single medium through which God saved me): I did not know one single person, on- or offline, who was into any of these types of music and who could guide me, from listening to the lesser known / better quality acts to understanding the genre terminology. In these ways, I was misinformed, somewhat sheltered, and ignorant. I didn't post (I never have had a Facebook), but if I had, I would have just been trying my best to express what I liked and share that (Christian) joy with others. Nevertheless, I imagine people can post/say some pretty annoying things. It can make conversations irritating or disappointing, especially given the boldness/confidence of their assertions. ... I don't have any conclusion ha. Perhaps we can offer correction (i.e., Impending Doom is not grindcore (but their EP tho)) when it may be well-received by the listener/reader and try to remain understanding when it wouldn't be. Thanks again for a great discussion from everybody!
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Post by _ on Jan 16, 2017 18:21:23 GMT -6
plagiarize its secular variant (like Imperial Dusk did) When, thanks to this forum, I discovered this ... so awkward ha. Also, I feel similarly to what CW posted for my personal listening.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 16, 2017 19:54:51 GMT -6
My answer to the Christian association with a secular act is, if a bigot secular label doesn't like that your music was associated with Christians or Christianity on a comp, they can suck a railroad spike.
It wasn't meant to be. There's always someone else that won't care about that and judge your band on the music you make. That will be a better label anyway.
My example. Ankou Awaits and Rulfrune Worxxx. He's an old school French secular black metal cassette label. Been around over 10 years. He thinks Christianity and black metal are contradictions and doesn't want anything to do with those themes in his releases. He told me he knew who I was from GRIM and after he made sure Ankou Awaits wasn't "Christian", he contacted me to do the cassette releases because he really liked the music. What other music I did or what I believed didn't distract this guy from what he liked - and that's what you need bro.
My point is, there's secular metal labels, even underground ones, that won't object to you because of your faith or past associations.
I'd like to see you get a good label like that.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 16, 2017 20:07:17 GMT -6
I think it depends on how the author is trying to portray it. If the show/movie/book depicts the murder in such a way that expresses disapproval of murder, then it's fine. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems like a lot of the murder-depicting music that some Christians avoid tries to glorify the murder. Here's a better example. I know Christians that would enjoy a zombie movie, but avoid listening to a song talking about the undead devouring people, despite loving the genre of music. That kind of thing. That doesn't make sense to me. Like, what about it being a "song" somehow makes it unacceptable?
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Post by Bartimaeus on Jan 16, 2017 21:38:01 GMT -6
One of the main reasons i got into metal (specifically, metal of the Christ-exaulting variety) was the level of "realness" it provided. I don't mind singing praises to God, HE deserves it, but singing/hearing the same thing in numerous songs grated on me. I just don't think that's how most people feel about their day, constant victory from sunup to sundown. I craved something that seemed to mirror my daily experience. Starting with Tourniquet in the 90s and ending with bands like Orationem and Renascent, I have found music and lyrics that speak to my soul. To be fair, I do find that in some modern worship bands like Sojourn, Indelible Grace and Bifrost Arts, too. I love that the scene exists for that very reason. I can get my fix of head banging and my soul nourished as well. I'm one of those dudes who was totally blown away by Anestor. The Forsaken holds a special place in my heart.
My thoughts on lyrics probably fall between CM and Thomas. I don't mind violence, I don't mind sexuality, but I cannot listen to or watch sexual violence. It's a matter of conscience and may seem silly, but that's where I've drawn the line.
I am thankful for this board and it's members. There are only a few people I can imagine having an honest discussion about masturbation and musical authenticity and not have it be really weird. Kerrick, thanks for creating this thread. Ben, thanks again for your honesty. I really like seeing your heart in and for extreme music.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jan 16, 2017 22:43:06 GMT -6
The whole exclusivity and sheltering of only listening to christian music really turns me off because it only encourages the mundanity of the output. When christian bands only listen to christian bands and are influenced by christian bands, the scene grows stagnant and vapid really quick. The whole focus on the message rather than the music really turns me off as well. I have nothing wrong with a good message. . . . I believe music should be the priority first and foremost. If you're gonna do something, do it the best you can while fitting the necessary aesthetic or motif. A Christian band that do get this right is Crimson Moonlight. Vociferator, I don't understand how listening to mostly Christian music would make the scene stagnant. I myself avoid satanic (etc) music like the plague nowadays, and I like to think Bozkath is still creative / original / extreme enough. (No doubt my main project LAYATS is original, too, but I don't really consider that project part of the "black metal" scene anymore.) Then you have Cryptic Rising, Betheos Abshalom, O Majestic Winter, etc. Besides, that's assuming listeners take issue with the "sound" that an average CBM album generally seems to have anyway; a lot of people are fine with it. A lot of this seems to be more a difference of opinion than objective issues in the scene. Which is fine, I guess I just don't understand how this stuff would inspire "doubt" or "reservations" with the scene. Also most christians that I encounter in person and on facebook (excluding you guys) are misinformed, sheltered, ignorant pricks. It's always Demon Hunter this, For Today that. Impending Doom is grindcore. Matty Mullins is totally NOT doing is solo project to fit a hole in the music market to cash in. Oh things were better when all we had were Rez band and Holy Soldier. oh right wasn't ZAO noisecore? I don't listen to black metal, that stuff is so satanic, I listen to only unblack metal even though it is so extremely limited in it's styles. I also like listening bands like The Agony Scene, just because they were on Solid State means they are christian, right? Wait underoath released three albums before They're Only Chasing Safety? I don't understand why people getting genres wrong (etc) is a big deal. I also don't understand how you can say CBM / unblack is "limited" in its styles; that tells me you haven't dug very deep into the scene, but anyway. I also geographically live in the wrong part of America too. It seems most of the the christian metal bands are east of the Mississippi. Over here I still have Consuming Fire (who don't tour), Stryper (like they would ever come to Fresno), Deliverance/Join the Dead (something could happen here since the drummer lives in my city), Flesh Incineration (who I'll visit when I tour Washington) and Gryp (the only local christian band with a front man who really doesn't listen to metal or share any similar taste as I). I'm still thankful that there are these bands,but this shows just how empty and futile the christian scene is out here. If I start a band that is devoted to Christ in the lyrics and the imagery and wants to be the next big thing on Rottweiler Records, how will I possibly find band members to begin with? After that, who would come to our shows? What nonbeliever wants to hear me cut into my 20 minute set to start on a 5 minute monologue about how jesus is cool. I'm already stuggling with attendance to begin with I don't understand how this is warrants "doubt" or "reservations". Praying for your friend with pneumonia btw.
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Post by barabbas on Jan 17, 2017 0:02:24 GMT -6
Great discussion, all!
I'm not sure this directly addresses Ben's concerns, but I think it relates to the topic at hand. I've grown weary of complaints that "Christian bands copy secular ones and are bad/worse."
Regarding the first part: (obvious plagiarism aside) copying styles happens all of the time and by everyone. Why is it only a problem when Christians do it? Think of how many bands have followed the formula of Wolves in the Throne Room, for example. There's no general problem with that, but when a Christian band does it, then they're "unoriginal copycats, etc., etc." Suppose you had five bands playing in a similar style and one of them was Christian. If you didn't know which one was Christian in advance, you wouldn't say it was copying the others. (That would be a fun focus group: taste these five black metal bands and pick out the one that tastes Christian.") Music operates with certain "rules" and "formulas." When you use the same ones, you'll have similar sounding music. There are only 12 notes (in Western music). Think about how when you don't know a genre, everything can sound exactly the same to you. Now that I'm a few years into black metal, it's wild to me how different the various sub-genres sound from each other. Why should we think that every Christian act should be ground-breaking? How many secular ones truly are? I can easily think of half a dozen Christian acts that have been genre-defining and of high quality. Given the ratio of Christian acts to secular ones, we should expect far fewer ground-breaking Christian acts. (What counts as ground-breaking would be an interesting discussion, too.)
Regarding the second part: it seems to me that Christian artists have never had the same kind of budgets their secular counterparts have had. It stands to reason that the quality (by certain measures) won't be as high. But again, there are many Christian acts that have been consistently high quality. There won't be as many; the ratio won't be in our favor. Since I have focused mainly on Christian music during my life (a different discussion), it has forced me to be more open to various genres. I have counted that as a blessing, since I now appreciate many different styles of music.
There are quite a few other aspects to what Ben and others have said. Perhaps I'll chime in again on a different strand.
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Post by Kerrick on Jan 17, 2017 11:58:16 GMT -6
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Post by barabbas on Jan 17, 2017 12:12:49 GMT -6
That being said, I would love the Christian scene to embrace originality more. Give the secular scene a reason to emulate us and to listen to us for our music - and then maybe those lyrics might have a greater effect. Yes!!!! Amen!!!
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 17, 2017 12:50:47 GMT -6
I would bet my next pay check that there exists WAY more un-original, lackluster secular black metal bands than all the Christian bands put together. Its not even possible to properly compare... like asking someone "which is better?" a really awesome dude from a local baseball team or some dude from an MLB draft pick? Not going to happen. One unspoken spirit of black metal is its underground / less common nature. Over 30k entries might as well be a conglomerate, so I'm happy to support even harder, the more "underground" of the two. (of the two meaning - Christian black metal vs. Secular black metal)
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Jan 17, 2017 12:59:09 GMT -6
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Post by thevociferator on Jan 19, 2017 3:16:51 GMT -6
some of my frustration there is I primarily listen to variants of atmospheric black metal. within the Christian scene, these are the only bands in that spectrum.
Dormant Phanerosis Usynlig Tumult Hands The Autumn League Callisto Sáwol Vials of Wrath Flaskavsae Glaciial Cryptic Rising Photosynthesis Scroll Lengsel Lo-Ruhamah Hesychast Departe
It seems like a decent list but I was extremely generous. The only bands I find worth my time are Vials of Wrath, Hands, Usynlig Tumult, Departe and Hesychast. I loved With Sorrow and Dread by Cryptic Rising, but they decided not to really explore that sonic territory which upset me. So again, 6 bands seems pretty cool, I shouldn't complain, right? The Atmospheric Black Metal thread I made can show just the ingenuity within the secular realm, how there are bands sprouting everywhere in the world, playing their own version of this style of black metal. I follow different youtube channels, metal-archives latest additions, bandcamp, different facebook promotional pages and find probably one new amazing secular band in this scene every other week. I'm not exaggerating, go look at my thread. The Christian scene only had new Hesychast, Departe, and Cryptic Rising. I guess I could quit complaining and be happy that Vials of Wrath and Hesychast exist, but I crave more bands. I mean why can't there be a Christian band of the same caliber as Alcest, Agalloch, Oathbreaker, Mesarthim, Mare Cognitum, Dystopia Na!, An Autumn for Crippled Children, Darkspace, Astronoid, Imber Luminis, etc?
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jan 19, 2017 10:27:05 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 11:39:18 GMT -6
I can totally see where Ben is coming from in his OP, even though we might come to different conclusions from one another in the end. I would articulate my thoughts, but I'm not sure it would be productive to go into detail really. Have to reflect on it a bit. he knew who I was from GRIM Thomas, I had no idea you were behind GRIM. You and I actually met in person once, at Cornerstone Festival 2000 (C2K), when Antestor and Extol played. I remember you showed me the "Scepter in Blood" album, and told me how you'd recorded the drums using a single microphone hanging from above lol.
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Post by Charles on Mar 19, 2017 14:25:41 GMT -6
The whole focus on the message rather than the music really turns me off as well. I just now started reading this thread... I know, I am slow on these things but I am coming around as times moves forward. This totally jumped out at me right here. Ben? Is that who originally wrote this? I hope I am getting that right. I totally agree with this, this is spot on for me as well. I would love to start a new thread on this topic as it can go quite deep and get very interesting. I just wanted to do a quick "I agree with this" reply. I have been getting a regular stream of messages the last month or so asking if Sylvan Fortress is a "Christian" band. I have also been working with Tortured Conscience and Demonic Extinction as the audio engineer lately and this topic keeps coming up all the time. I think it deserves it's own thread rather than hijack this one, as this one deserves to not be hijacked.
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Post by thevociferator on Mar 19, 2017 14:46:08 GMT -6
yeah feel free to do like a pt 2 whatever! and yeah I'm Ben (or Benjamin). I just go by TheVociferator following my Vociferator Entertainment net-label
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2017 16:21:32 GMT -6
Trying to articulate what bothers me about the Christian Black/Unblack Metal scene, but I realize there's no way I can put it that won't come across as angry confrontational.
While I am all for confrontationalism, I also don't want to be uncharitable, so... I'll just put it this way:
I am in complete agreement with the way true, satanic (orthodox) black metallers define Black Metal, it's original definition. I define Christian Black/Unblack Metal the same way.
Let's make Unblack scary again!
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