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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 14, 2017 18:34:00 GMT -6
My brother texted me this video link. We both lol'ed quite a bit. Its a deathcore/slam-deathmetal (?) lyric video with um.... very distinct lyrics... (don't worry, no graphic imagery or anything like that)
Obviously because of the thread title, I could see how someone would think this lyric video is EXTREMELY offensive. So what's the personal determinant? Why do me and my brother (who are Christians) get a HUGE laugh from something like this, while other Christians would probably be undeniably offended? Are those offended taking it too seriously? Are those offended lacking a sense of humor? Are those laughing when they watch this not taking it seriously enough? Are those laughing guilty of a warped sense of humor? Is that bad? (If you don't think this video is funny or offensive, than what are you opinions on something else you DO consider funny that others find offensive? If you don't have an example, then why are others laughing at something you're offended by? Etc.) Opinions please. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 18:48:08 GMT -6
I only watched the video for about a minute. I can't say I'm offended, but I'm also not amused. I don't find that kind of humor funny. I don't have too much to say about this. I'll just quote this verse that I think a lot of Christians forget about: Ephesians 5:4
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Post by exo on Mar 14, 2017 19:08:41 GMT -6
I find it neither humorous nor offensive to be honest. It's just someone trying too hard to be both. Ultimately, my reaction is just "meh.....whatevs, got better things to occupy my time.......", and I' just pretty apathetic about it.
As far as whether or not something is "offensive"......my take is that those terms place the emphasis wrongly. Thing should not be regarded as "offensive", as if they have some sort of empowerment on their own. No one is offended without ALLOWING themselves to be, and to say "that's offensive" shifts responsibility from the person taking offense. It says "I am not in control of my reaction". Being offended is not something that happens passively, it is an active reaction to something.....but that's just MY take on things. I won't cede control over my thoughts and actions to another person......
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 14, 2017 20:42:35 GMT -6
I'll just quote this verse that I think a lot of Christians forget about: Ephesians 5:4Dang bro. When you put it that way, you broaden the definitions too much. I won't call context fail, but that weighs different when you read it from verse 3 to vs 6. Did you know Elijah had some potty humor with some Baal worshippers in I Kings 18:26-27? If someone thinks that even what Elijah said qualifies as "foolish talk, and coarse jokes" then all I have to say is, sorry to them about their sense of humor... As far as whether or not something is "offensive"......my take is that those terms place the emphasis wrongly. Thing should not be regarded as "offensive", as if they have some sort of empowerment on their own. No one is offended without ALLOWING themselves to be, and to say "that's offensive" shifts responsibility from the person taking offense. It says "I am not in control of my reaction". Being offended is not something that happens passively, it is an active reaction to something.....but that's just MY take on things. I won't cede control over my thoughts and actions to another person...... How much of something you find funny actively or passively happens? Ever see or hear something and lose control with laughter or laugh at something you didn't expect to laugh at? I've certainly seen it in myself and other people. Heck, I'll even lump me and this video into it - why do me and my brother cheese out at this kind of stuff? I seriously want to know, and I can't figure it out. HAHA!!!
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 14, 2017 20:56:25 GMT -6
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2017 21:07:21 GMT -6
that weighs different when you read it from verse 3 to vs 6. To me, that isn't true. That verse by itself carries the same meaning. I've read all of Ephesians 5. It talks about the way we ought to behave, and that verse is part of it.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 14, 2017 22:29:02 GMT -6
To me, when you read it 3-6, it feels more like its referencing corrupt type stuff... deeper stuff than just dick humor. When you just tote verse 4, especially with the "nor jesting" from the KJV, it just sounds like you're trying to say Christians shouldn't make jokes at all.
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Post by exo on Mar 14, 2017 23:21:27 GMT -6
As far as whether or not something is "offensive"......my take is that those terms place the emphasis wrongly. Thing should not be regarded as "offensive", as if they have some sort of empowerment on their own. No one is offended without ALLOWING themselves to be, and to say "that's offensive" shifts responsibility from the person taking offense. It says "I am not in control of my reaction". Being offended is not something that happens passively, it is an active reaction to something.....but that's just MY take on things. I won't cede control over my thoughts and actions to another person...... How much of something you find funny actively or passively happens? Ever see or hear something and lose control with laughter or laugh at something you didn't expect to laugh at? I've certainly seen it in myself and other people. Heck, I'll even lump me and this video into it - why do me and my brother cheese out at this kind of stuff? I seriously want to know, and I can't figure it out. HAHA!!! I'm more or less commenting on the concept of being aware of one's response to a given stimuli, and accepting responsibility for that response, rather than pushing that responsibility at another person. It's not "they said/did something offensive", it's "*I* am offended", emphasis on "I" being the one responsible for my reaction, not someone else........
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 7:23:20 GMT -6
To me, when you read it 3-6, it feels more like its referencing corrupt type stuff... deeper stuff than just dick humor. When you just tote verse 4, especially with the "nor jesting" from the KJV, it just sounds like you're trying to say Christians shouldn't make jokes at all. Is sexually explicit humor (especially since it's homosexual) not corrupt? I certainly wouldn't consider that video mere "dick humor".
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 15, 2017 7:57:36 GMT -6
So you're saying I'm sinning because I think that video is funny?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 8:07:37 GMT -6
So you're saying I'm sinning because I think that video is funny? I'm honestly not sure. There's a distinction to be made between laughing at coarse jokes and producing coarse jokes, and the sinfulness of the former is debatable. I'm certainly not innocent when it comes to this kind of thing. Perhaps my opinion on it is strong right now because of something that happened a few weeks ago. I met with a group of Christian friends one night, and we ended up playing Cards Against Humanity (the epitome of coarse jokes). I felt pretty convicted about it afterwards. My friends made plans to meet up and play it again, and I won't go if they do. I'm certain that we all sinned that night in playing that game. In that case, we were the source of the jokes, but we were acting through a pre-constructed medium that was made specifically for that purpose.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 15, 2017 9:30:05 GMT -6
So you're saying I'm sinning because I think that video is funny? I'm honestly not sure. There's a distinction to be made between laughing at coarse jokes and producing coarse jokes, and the sinfulness of the former is debatable. Its not debatable. I think you're reading too much into it. In Matthew 5:22, Jesus says that anyone who calls someone "a fool" is in danger of hell, yet Jesus calls the Pharisees fools in Matthew 23:17. So is Jesus in danger of hell? No. There's a pretty significant difference between calling someone a fool off the cuff, and trying to wield words to deliberately cut someone down. Just like there's a difference between laughing at or telling a "crude joke" JUST for laughs, and someone being crude just to hurt or try to offend someone. If you read any online commentaries regarding Ephesians 5:4, you'll see the same alignment. Besides, even if you want to take Ephesians 5:4 NLT literally, it just says "its not for you", a proverbial "knock it off / grow up guys" wrist slap. Pretty sure if dumb jokes were sin that sends someone to hell, the Bible would clarify on that. I met with a group of Christian friends one night, and we ended up playing Cards Against Humanity (the epitome of coarse jokes). I felt pretty convicted about it afterwards. My friends made plans to meet up and play it again, and I won't go if they do. I'm certain that we all sinned that night in playing that game. In that case, we were the source of the jokes, but we were acting through a pre-constructed medium that was made specifically for that purpose. My wife, her mom and grandma (who are also Christians) love that game. I haven't played it yet, but I would (and would again) if asked. Gonna elaborate a bit on what Exo said about "shifting responsibility". Its one thing to do something and feel convicted, but its another to try and guilt others to YOUR conviction. If you can't take a bad joke, then you can't - doesn't mean you've got to stop others from having a laugh. That would be like me trying to guilt everyone in the beer thread to stop drinking because I'm an alcoholic. I can't help but realize (from tallying posts) there's a LOT of things you prevent yourself from doing because of conviction... like way more than any other Christian I know. You know, its possible to be "too righteous" and "take every word too seriously", and that is also advised against in the Bible. ( Ecclesiastes 7:16-22)
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Post by Kerrick on Mar 15, 2017 10:31:52 GMT -6
At the risk of sounding holier-than-thou, self-righteous, and judgmental... I'll share my thoughts... I do NOT mean to belittle anyone or cast judgment or imply or suggest anything about this specific instance but rather hope to speak in more general sense. I was trying to formulate how to share my thoughts without implying that I am somehow more holy or wise or whatever than someone else who doesn’t share my opinions but I couldn’t think of a way haha. I guess it’ll have to suffice to say that I believe my faith is a gift of God and is not dependent on anything of my own doing.
I think it comes down to [spiritual] maturity. In high school and college I was a professing Christian, active in church groups and all, a Bible study leader, and all that. But I just ate up all the super over-the-top Robert Rodriguez style movies with copious amounts of violence, language, sexuality, and nudity. I found it to be immensely entertaining and did not feel convicted by any of it. I felt much in the same way as Thomas does: if you aren’t personally convicted by it, then it’s not wrong for you. However, as I [believe I] have grown spiritually, I am naturally less and less drawn to such things anymore. As was said earlier, I don’t think it’s a matter of being “offensive” either but rather what things are or aren’t glorifying to God. We should pursue taking part in what brings Him glory and reject things that don’t. Now, as Thomas implied, this could easily turn into a works-based religion which is obviously not what Christianity is about. But I do believe that through the process of sanctification, God will continue to develop, grow, and mature us to be more and more Christlike – and that inevitably will include shedding off aspects of our “old selves” that are drawn to un-glorifying-to-Him things.
As for Ephesians 5, I’m in agreement with CW here: I don’t know how else one could read that. The context seems pretty clear to me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 13:31:07 GMT -6
There's a pretty significant difference between calling someone a fool off the cuff, and trying to wield words to deliberately cut someone down. Just like there's a difference between laughing at or telling a "crude joke" JUST for laughs, and someone being crude just to hurt or try to offend someone. I think we can both agree that telling a crude joke just to try to hurt/offend someone is bad. That has horrible intentions. While telling a crude joke just for laughs has better intentions (entertaining others), that doesn't necessarily make it good. (And in my opinion, it isn't good.) Besides, even if you want to take Ephesians 5:4 NLT literally, it just says "its not for you", a proverbial "knock it off / grow up guys" wrist slap. You were talking before about reading it in the context of the rest of the chapter. The prior verse states "Let there be no sexual immorality, impurity, or greed among you. Such sins have no place among God’s people." This uses pretty strong language ("have no place among God's people"). Verse six says "Don’t be fooled by those who try to excuse these sins, for the anger of God will fall on all who disobey him." Sure, you can debate whether "these sins" refers to only verse 3 or verses 3 and 4 (and 5, but that's not as relevant to this discussion), but it seems pretty clear to me that this is something that we ought not to partake in. I agree with Kerrick when he said that maturity creates a lesser desire for this kind of humor. Gonna elaborate a bit on what Exo said about "shifting responsibility". Its one thing to do something and feel convicted, but its another to try and guilt others to YOUR conviction. If you can't take a bad joke, then you can't - doesn't mean you've got to stop others from having a laugh. That would be like me trying to guilt everyone in the beer thread to stop drinking because I'm an alcoholic. I don't think I'm trying to guilt others into my conviction here. I honestly think what I'm talking about is pretty clear and doesn't really fall into that grey zone. I also hate alcohol and don't drink (and never will). I believe it would be a sin for me to drink because I know I would feel guilty afterwards. And I agree that I shouldn't press that conviction onto others (although sometimes it's difficult for me to refrain from doing so) because the Bible clearly says that it's okay to drink as long as you don't get drunk. I can't help but realize (from tallying posts) there's a LOT of things you prevent yourself from doing because of conviction... like way more than any other Christian I know. You know, its possible to be "too righteous" and "take every word too seriously", and that is also advised against in the Bible. I'm not trying to pursue an impossible state of righteousness. There are many things that I simply lack the desire to do, yet you think that I'm intentionally restraining myself. An excellent example of one of them is listening to Satanic black metal. Sure, the music could be good, but I legitimately don't want to go and listen to Dark Funeral. It's not that I'm holding myself back. I made the choice.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 15, 2017 14:29:50 GMT -6
I agree with Kerrick when he said that maturity creates a lesser desire for this kind of humor. Well then you're both more mature than me, my brother and my wife then. Have fun with that. I'm not trying to pursue an impossible state of righteousness. There are many things that I simply lack the desire to do, yet you think that I'm intentionally restraining myself. An excellent example of one of them is listening to Satanic black metal. Sure, the music could be good, but I legitimately don't want to go and listen to Dark Funeral. It's not that I'm holding myself back. I made the choice. You do what you need to do for you. I don't think I'm trying to guilt others into my conviction here. You're not? Then why I'll just quote this verse that I think a lot of Christians forget about: Ephesians 5:4I certainly wouldn't consider that video mere "dick humor". but it seems pretty clear to me that this is something that we ought not to partake in. when I was more or less wanting to know WHY I thought this video was funny in the original post!!!!!!! I ask about humor and offensiveness, why we're one or the other, and you point both barrels right at me and weigh my edification as to why I even posted this, which is quite frankly off topic.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 14:41:13 GMT -6
I ask about humor and offensiveness, why we're one or the other, and you point both barrels right at me and weigh my edification as to why I even posted this, which is quite frankly off topic. I'm not one or the other. I'm neither, and I explained why by quoting Ephesians 5:4. The conversation started going off topic when we discussed the meaning of Ephesians 5:4.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 15, 2017 15:11:02 GMT -6
I'm not one or the other. I'm neither, (If you don't think this video is funny or offensive, than what are you opinions on something else you DO consider funny that others find offensive? If you don't have an example, then why are others laughing at something you're offended by? Etc.)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2017 15:25:27 GMT -6
Alright, then. I find conservative political humor to be funny, which I'm sure some liberals find offensive. But that's due to a simple difference in political views.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 20:27:08 GMT -6
I only watched the video for about a minute. I can't say I'm offended, but I'm also not amused. I don't find that kind of humor funny. I don't have too much to say about this. I'll just quote this verse that I think a lot of Christians forget about: Ephesians 5:4In my opinion, this is the proper response. Living up to it is, of course, another matter entirely. One of my personal struggles is humor. I love joking around, making others laugh. It helps alleviate my own inner misery. I tell myself I should be more serious, but if I took away the comedy, I'd just be unbearable to be around. Then I'd laugh at the first poop joke, so that wouldn't work.
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Post by Deepfriar on Mar 16, 2017 21:31:02 GMT -6
I don't find it offensive personally but this humor doesn't really do it for me. When I'm in the mood for crude humor it's something more like It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia. It's got a healthy dose of ridiculous too. Haha. I do think this video would be very offensive to many conservatives though, so I would not rotate it among such circles so as to avoid needless conflict. I am not sure how much worse it got because I quit watching pretty quickly when I realized that the humor is not really appealing to me at this present time. Not because I think it's sinful, but it's just not funny to me lol.
I do think people are offended far too easily though and get caught up in whether or not something is "sin" instead of just enjoying life. Sin is defined in the Bible as transgression of law, and the strength of sin is the law. Under the new covenant we are free from the law and under grace instead. This is why sin has no power over us.
Instead of worrying about sin, I try to focus on more important things like how I'm treating others. Am I letting the love of God flow through me? Loving God and loving others are the two most important things according to Jesus.
Thanks for sharing this video though as it is clearly a hot conversation starter lol.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 17, 2017 17:19:46 GMT -6
It's got a healthy dose of ridiculous too. I think that's why I get a kick out of the video in the original post. Like someone on the CMR pondered, even though people aren't saying it, their reaction shows they're taking it WAAAAY to seriously compared to how I'm taking it. Metal Injection said "This can be either be taken humorously, or for some who are less comfortable with their sexuality, offensively." I honestly think there's some truth to that. I mean, its ridiculously, shockingly, in some ways anatomically-impossibly gay, and lots of men (not just Christian men) are homophobic. Secular metal lyrics that (are acceptable to Christians) portray other sin. So do action movies that Christians enjoy. ...but those aren't as "bad" as... ..."gay"... This Brojob project I see no different than funny horror. Ever seen Shaun of the Dead? Like the actors in that movie, I laughed at the term "Cockocidal Maniac". That's what these lyrics are! My dad is totally against murder, but he's read every "Bourne" book and seen every movie. He's not sinning for enjoying it. That's because its not real. Those guys aren't "real" with those lyrics. So why else is there a recoil, if its not homophobia?
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Post by exo on Mar 17, 2017 18:01:26 GMT -6
I'd be willing to bet that a LOT of Christians reacting with vitriol would be just as put out if it was this graphic and about straight sex as well. This being out and out "gay" in nature......OF COURSE the reaction is going to bring up that aspect, because that's sorta how the question is lensed via the example given. I'm also betting that we'd see a similarly vitriolic reaction to that Gruesome vid I posted in Metal Mesh, and THAT has absolutely NOTHING to do with sex..
It all comes down to differences in perception about what the Biblical guidelines are and where the lines need to be drawn. There's an AWFUL lot of people that seem to think their personal position is the be all/end all for the arguement, and for far too many of them, their attempt to "guide" and advise their brethren simply amounts to smacking them with a frying pan and proclaiming "you're wrong, and you're a heathen idiot".
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Post by exo on Mar 17, 2017 19:01:56 GMT -6
You know what WOULD make Brojob hilarious to me? if the name was a highly offensive bit of Asian stereotyping.......
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