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Post by Kerrick on Sept 8, 2015 11:55:31 GMT -6
So Kimmo mentioned this old physical magazine that was printed called Turn Or Burn that had demo material of bands, interviews, reviews, news, etc. I would LOVE there to be something like that again. Does anyone know of anything? There's that from in Brazil I think but nothing in English that I'm aware of.
My next thought is... what would it take to make my/our own??? Christian metal is one of the only things I feel very passionately about, though I have no idea how to play any instrument or sing. There are enough labels it seems... so what else is needed in the scene? I'd like to get more involved and maybe this could be a good way? What do you guys think?
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Post by Deepfriar on Sept 8, 2015 12:26:52 GMT -6
It sounds like a fantastic idea. I'd be willing to pitch in occasionally to help with editing/writing/articles/reviews.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 13:13:19 GMT -6
Sounds great to me. Would it be an ezine or a physical magazine? mauce.nl is kind of an ezine (but really more of a news site), though they cover Christian hard rock and classic metal too rather than just the extreme stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2015 16:29:40 GMT -6
We NEED a print zine. Haven't had one since the old Untombed magazine.
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Post by drawnsword on Sept 8, 2015 20:47:25 GMT -6
So Kimmo mentioned this old physical magazine that was printed called Turn Or Burn that had demo material of bands, interviews, reviews, news, etc. I would LOVE there to be something like that again. Does anyone know of anything? There's that from in Brazil I think but nothing in English that I'm aware of. My next thought is... what would it take to make my/our own??? Christian metal is one of the only things I feel very passionately about, though I have no idea how to play any instrument or sing. There are enough labels it seems... so what else is needed in the scene? I'd like to get more involved and maybe this could be a good way? What do you guys think? Kerrick, I think a Christian Extreme Metal Zine (not a magazine)would be killer and sucesfull if its done right and true. Zines are way cheaper and easier to make, plus they are better defined as work of art, as well as a true underground format! I have a good collection of Christian Extreme Metal Zine's from the 1990's including a copy of Turn or Burn with a 7", mostly trades with the comic/art zines i self published back then. I even started one back in 1996 Wreathe of Thorns Zine and left as editor as the second issue was about ready. In 2009 I started Untombed zine with Matt from Blood Drift with Mattern/DMD as our advertiser/publisher in which i contributed quite alot of art, reviews and interviews though Matterns wife did the layout. I am quite passionate about zines and have considered starting one again over the last decade as i feel more drawn to making art zines. I can give you some tips on how to make a real true 90's style underground zine if interested? The best zine too me was Open Grave Zine as it was jammed packed with content and thick page count, interviews, reviews, adds,and artwork not a wasted inch of paper, you could read it over a month or so to read it all. Second fav was Troy Dunmires Creature zine, his crazy artwork made it visually interesting on every single page plus it had good fair amount of content too.
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Post by drawnsword on Sept 8, 2015 22:49:49 GMT -6
How to make a true metal zine and tips to make it killer imo...
Decide the zine format size and page count. i.e; A4 size zine = A3 size leaf, a leaf folded makes up 4 pages, these will become your MASTER SHEETS that you take to the copy shop and print off. Get a long arm stapler and print, staple small runs yourself whenever needed. You cut and paste with a good paper glue the content onto the MASTER SHEETS on both sides too and can arrange bits of artwork done in black ink or dark pencil around in the corners and in gaps. Type up in the smallest font readable your reviews, interviews, articles etc and print them off then cut them out and stick them into your MASTER SHEETS arranged in a space saving yet interesting artfull way. Dont ever have patches of blank white spaces, throw in a graphic, a lyric something never nothing! Because zines are B+W make sure all the writing is readable, and what prints off your MASTER SHEETS actually prints out, do a test copy and then darken up any spots where the text is faint or absent with a fine black pen and do 1 test copy again to check. 32p to 40pages is a good zine length but longer the better, remember readable in half an hour is insulting and a waste, many zines were terrible with hardly anything in them in the 90's. Dont be too eager to get it out, keep adding to your MASTER SHEETS and make it chocker full of stuff to look at, make it a work of art as well as having loads too read and of info of the scene.
For Extreme Christian metal probably 2 issues a year would be about right , you dont want to only have a hand full of interviews and reviews, the good zines in the past had 20 interviews and 100 demo/album reviews plus other stuff like articles etc . If you can churn the content out fast then go for a quarterly issues, 4x a year one each season. Come up with a good name and have an unreadable logo to keep away other scenes, make sure the logo is a good one as its best to keep the same logo as it will show the underground you dont compromise and stay true.
Your zine name could trigger a theme for the first issue with the artwork and layout, pay a artist with an underground flair to provide you a few flash sheets of small corner art you can cut and paste in the gaps on every page. Dont put bands poseing on the covers, get a brutal art piece done for the front and back covers and say something powerfull with it, you can have your longhair grimace shots inside with the interviews.If cant afford a cheap artist or not one yourself then you could use old B+W public domain art or use your own photos of stuff that would look cool. Ask 40 bands/acts for an interview and send one question or 2 at a time so the questions lead of each answer. Some bands respond slow so if you have 40 on the go you hopefully get 20 to feature in the zine sooner and the slow ones next issue. Keep album reviews short and straight to the point so you can pack in more, 60 reviews per zine should be a minimin goal. Come on we are making something to read arnt we? Give a section with news of new bands and links etc. Run articles on current issues in the scene or thought provoking ones. Dont fall into messing with computer programes to do your layout, things go wrong and get complicated. Just print your content out in narrow coloms or wide paragraphs and cut and paste into your MASTER SHEETS, that is what a true zine is.
Dont except downloads for review, only hard copy recordings. Everyone will respect your zine if you do it right. Get a scanner too so you scan each cover for each review, this will help keep the underground scene alive in the real world.
Have fun!
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Post by kimmo on Sept 9, 2015 8:24:50 GMT -6
Sounds like a good idea! I am going to finish my hardcore zine one of these days (its already been a 5 year project, but I live in hope,hah), but I would be more than willing to contribute. My zine will also have non-christian artists and people that I like and I would hope that some of those interviews that were on the great HM magazine. I love how they interviewed even the darkest metal bands and then would throw the question "What you think about Jesus Christ?" I think these kinda interviews are important for many reasons and one is also the fact that some of these artists might get in contact with an actual "normal" christian for a first time and it could make a difference in their life. I know the drummer from Slayer was very excided to to the interview for HM and it seemed that at least for a short time he felt connected to christianity in some way. Of course the interviews shouldnt be solely about non-christian bands, as we have remarkable christian ones as well, but I guess those kinda interview could also attract interest from the general metal crowd as well. Anyways, here are my 2 cents
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2015 13:00:08 GMT -6
Hey! I was starting to work on something similar! I already have a couple of interviews to use in that (consuming fire, skald in veum and megiddon) I definitely want to be part of this!
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 9, 2015 15:49:31 GMT -6
Lots of good ideas in this thread. Drawnsword, you've obviously got the most experience of this so far. If Jeff (Denith) stops by and sees this, I'm sure he'd have some input because he did a zine before. Cassio has done the Christian extreme metal catalog thing for a while now - I just e-mailed him for pointers and see what software he uses and what the most practical approach is.
I think making this a multi-man operation will reduce the burnout opposed to someone just doing everything themselves.
...also, there's got to be at least a little bit of a markup for the reward in time spent and motivation to keep going. This thing would sink like a rock if the people behind its backbone constantly lost money over it. That being said, it will also require a lot of volunteer efforts to stay afloat.
I think it would be awesome to enlist anyone here who wanted to make contributions - though it certainly wouldn't have to be a The Blackest Light Zine.
Back in the day, I had Troy Dunmire's "The Creature Preacher" ZINE (he did artwork for Mortification and Metanoia years ago) It was just regular sized paper stapled, black and white print only. I LOVED that thing and hauled it around with me in high school because it scared the people that made fun of me because I was a Christian. I also liked it because it wasn't the typical "reviews, interviews, information" that every Zine does. He had some of that, but also testimonies and other off topic stuff.
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Post by drawnsword on Sept 9, 2015 17:32:25 GMT -6
The convenience of having cut and paste master-sheets for your zine is that you can run down to the copy shop at the drop of a hat and print 5 copies off inexpensively for a few orders you just got, go home, fold and staple them yourself and send them off all in the same hour.This is way more do-able with a small budget, and you dont have to compromise for some advertiser by featuring bands that dont fit etc. While printing off glossy magazines like Wreathe of Thorns became with issue #8? was very expensive, requiring a large batch print and advertiser backing to fund. I personally dislike the look of pro slick looking metal mags and love the old photo-copy zines with the crazy underground style art or and illustrations scattered through them with no blank spaces, though now days what is a basic photo-copy is actually really blimmin good quality mate! Making a pro-slick looking Magazine with fancy paper, colour cover, etc and learning magazine computer layout gets tricky, very expensive and slows everything down, plus looses the underground style and look. A real zine is cut and paste on master-sheets and gives you that hands on feeling to design it and get a feel for how its looking, in my opinion zines should be done by one person. Why? because a true zine is a personal work of art, in my experience many will offer to do reviews but not many will deliver or last... most just want a free copy and it gets expensive sending out copies. If you cant sit down and write 10 reviews a week dont start a zine. I think its healthy to have a few zines going in the scene it helps inspire zine editors along and helps creates an active underground. Anyone who has it in there heart to make one should just do it themselves. Here are examples of real underground metal zines...(beware nasty images) www.google.com/search?q=underground+metal+zines&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAmoVChMIh-2ujqrrxwIV492mCh0R7A_U&biw=1360&bih=635#and www.google.com/search?q=underground+metal+zines&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAmoVChMIh-2ujqrrxwIV492mCh0R7A_U&biw=1360&bih=635#tbm=isch&q=black+metal+zinesalso this site extreme metal zine scans from yesteryear so you can get a feel for how they looked inside www.endbackmystamps.org
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 10, 2015 11:30:03 GMT -6
Wow, the more I read your guys' responses and think about this, the more excited I am for the possibility of doing it! Right now my future is a bit up in the air due to some big logistics decisions to be made in the near future with regards to my girlfriend and I. (She's not a US citizen and as things get more and more serious... one of us is probably going to be moving... See the relationships thread for more details haha.) Also, time is not something I have much of these days. So if I were to be involved, I wouldn't be able to do everything. I guess I'd break it into these tasks: -Compiling all written material and layout -Cover artwork -Writing reviews -Performing interviews -Writing other material (devotionals, opinion articles, etc.) -Attaining and mixing the songs for the album (just making sure their volumes aren't off relative to the other songs, etc.) -Burning the CDs (I'm thinking something like these to make it look good: www.discmakers.com/duplicators/printers/Automated.asp)-Printing/stapling the zine -Mailing the zine + CD out I could see myself possibly printing/burning the material, getting songs from bands, and mailing it out. Maybe the layout and some devotional stuff too. Most of the written material would need to be performed by others, but I think we collectively know enough people who could write reviews and such to fill a quarterly magazine. Plus, we got Drawnsword here to make epic artwork!
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 12, 2015 22:29:02 GMT -6
I'm going to chat tomorrow (Sunday) with a guy who already has some of the groundwork laid for a zine and some others already committed to it. I think he'd maybe like us to join in with what he's already doing. My gut feeling is that if we move forward with this, this group here would like to start fresh and create our own thing instead of joining something else, but I'll gather some more info first. I think right now they're planning on doing a webzine but originally wanted to do a printed zine. Anyways, just wanted to keep y'all posted.
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Post by Deepfriar on Sept 13, 2015 8:09:49 GMT -6
Sounds metalicious.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 13, 2015 9:32:53 GMT -6
An automated printer would be good down the road. I think a more affordable one could be found elsewhere besides Discmakers, if you wanted to sink money into that sort of thing. I've got printable labels, slim CDs cases and have the experience of putting a decent number of these together already for Orationem (and Hguols Epitome re-release) and would gladly fall on the sword of making Zine discs by hand. However many you need. Just please don't press these at Discmakers. I used Discmaker's short run pressings for 9 albums. (4 Hguols, 5 Ankou Awaits) ...and I would not recommend using them now, though 2014 and prior I would have.
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 13, 2015 22:16:32 GMT -6
Thanks Thomas for the insight on the printers. I haven't done any research but I saw that such things exist for pretty reasonable prices. Seems like something along those lines may be a good investment if we wanted to do any reasonable volume with reasonable quality. So I spoke with Benjamin today (who runs Rotting Antichrist Publications) on the phone. The gist is that I think he'd really like us to join what he's already got. The pros would be that he's already got a name, Facebook page, and some interviews/reviews done. He's also very passionate about this and I think is willing to really carry this project along. He'd be willing to do the layout, print everything up, and distribute it. He'd need artwork done (Drawnsword, this is where your talents would come in) but otherwise is just looking for folks to help out. He's definitely not in it for the money and would be willing to pitch in financially to get things going. In terms of content, he seems pretty well aligned with what we've already spoken about. He's very into grindcore and so that'd be a bigger part of the zine than I had initially imagined, but I don't see that as a big deal or anything. His initial plan was to create a printed zine, but then when it came down to it, he didn't have the support/help to give it full realization so he opted for a web-based ministry instead. I'm curious what y'all would like. I think from our conversations, we all have a pretty unified vision of what we'd like this to become. And it seems like Benjamin is well aligned with that vision too. Though perhaps this is just a pride thing, but it would mean that we'd be joining something already (to some degree) preexisting instead of fully starting our own thing from scratch. I don't know how much that matters to anyone, but it is something to consider. Also, he's ready to get going on this right away and I think by the latest, would like to have a printed product distributed out by Christmastime/New Year's. He's got a couple other guys who are committed to this too. Anyways, that's the scoop. What do you guys think?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2015 4:44:59 GMT -6
Sounds good to me. I could write some reviews for CBM albums and that would be my contribution (so that the zine isn't entirely grindcore).
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Post by kimmo on Sept 14, 2015 6:24:11 GMT -6
I could do interviews and write columns if people are into that sorta thing. I have done some small essays/testimonials to local newspaper and done some mostly online-based record reviewing and band-interviews.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 15, 2015 21:10:25 GMT -6
I'm probably going to be odd man out here, but there's a few things I don't much care for with this setup. I know its certainly not my call, and I'm not saying I'm out if this is the collaboration, but I'm just voicing my opinions and concerns.
Concern #1
I know that metal is one giant pun, but "Rotting AntiChrist" for a zine name is not original enough - considering "Rotting Christ" has been around since 1987. I swear, all that name does is remind me of the band - and that's not good in my opinion.
For two, that sort of name just pisses off people who aren't of faith and is nothing but a banner of segregation. The last thing Christian metal needs is to put up a sign that rubs salt into the wounds of those who are lost. Secular metal has a front of bashing the "other" side (Christians) - the last thing Christian metal needs is the front of bashing the "other" side (anything unholy) ...not to mention the secular/main extreme metal scene (umpteenth times the size of the Christian one, mind you) would probably be more un-accepting of the content if they remotely felt like their ideals were attacked. Yeah, I have an opinion regarding things evil and considered evil, but that doesn't mean I'm going to poke it with a stick. Extreme Christian music shouldn't compromise their lyrics, but its a good thing when it doesn't utterly piss off those who really need to hear it.
Concern #2
Is this a grindcore zine with a few black metal bands thrown in? ...or what's going on here? Hey, I love grind. I wouldn't have played it myself if I didn't. ...but I'm leery on how this will be mixed. My parallel example is fruit.
If a fruit vendor has apple, orange and banana stands - that's cool. I love them all, but I really like oranges. If a fruit vendor has an orange only stand, super awesome. That's exactly what I'm looking for because I really like oranges. If a fruit vendor has an apple stand, and for some reason a couple oranges and a banana with the apples - again, I like all that's there...
...but that's just a weird setup man.
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Post by kimmo on Sept 16, 2015 8:02:15 GMT -6
Hey! I was starting to work on something similar! I already have a couple of interviews to use in that (consuming fire, skald in veum and megiddon) I definitely want to be part of this! I myself would be especially interested in those latter two so I guess I might not be the only one
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 16, 2015 9:54:07 GMT -6
Thomas Eversole, with regards to the name... I completely agree. Something that really bothers me about a lot of "unblack" is that it's so militantly anti-anti-Christian and the lyrics often reflect violence against the opposition we face (usually towards demonic forces, but still...). It's all very polarizing and therefore not very welcoming to someone who may be on the fence towards such matters. Like most Christian music, the primary audience for this potential zine is going to already be believers, that's just the nature of it all. But I wouldn't want to be a part of anything that pushes away nonbelievers either. If we went forward with this idea, I would definitely want to change the name... I haven't spoken to Benjamin about that so I don't know what his thoughts are. As for the musical content, I think it'd be a "Christian extreme music" zine. He loves his black and death metal too, though also some deathcore and such. Personally, I'd prefer to leave anything -core out of it, but so long as it's relatively balanced, that's not a big issue for me if there are some metalcore album reviews thrown in there too.
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Post by kimmo on Sept 17, 2015 2:56:46 GMT -6
I am totally with youguys about the polarizing -thing. I try to avoid it in the hardcore and punk skene as well. I write to the biggest punk -site in Finland and most of the people that know me there know I am a christian and some bug me about it. I would love to hit back with some stuff and sometimes I have done so, cos I aint no saint and sometimes one can counter an attack on a positive manner too, but I can also be a right jerk if you know what buttons to push Those of you who know who this guy is, can get a glimpse of what I am feeling sometimes. Minus the physical violence, thus far, thank God, hah.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 17, 2015 11:04:15 GMT -6
LOL - that picture. I've been there with the whole being made fun of for being a Christian. I think I had most of that during high school but, the same crowd mocking me for that would have mocked me for something else if I wasn't a Christian. (Therefore, the problem was them, not me) Regarding the music scene, I don't have people mock me because of my faith. ...and here's why. One word. Respect See, when someone discredits my faith online, my "rebuttal" has to do with why they're mocking me. I literally change the topic from my faith, to their lack of respect. I don't disrespect or mock their belief, which is different than mine. "Why are you stooping to this? I'm not mocking you!" I put them on the spot about it - publicly if necessary. I swear, every time this happens, they stop - one way or the other. I guarantee, if those punk zine dudes mock your faith, and you publicly post a respect rebuttal (ie: you're own blog, copy their mailing list on your reply, etc.) - yeah, they may not take your submissions anymore, but they'll STOP mocking your faith. ...and they probably won't mock the next person either. Every non-Christian knows that worldwide, especially outside of music, there are over a billion people they have to claim are wrong - and the last thing ANYONE wants is the potential for an angry mob, in or out of the scene. I wouldn't write for douchebags anyway. I would take my personal time to utterly destroy them as professionally, as ethically as faith outlined as possible - without sinking to their level. In regards to faith vs. secular metal in person it doesn't happen with me because, well, I'm a big guy and I'm way stronger than even the average gym rat. No one wants to piss off a big guy. ...even more so, I ooze respect in person, so that gives even more of a reason to not piss off the big guy. ____________________________ Which brings me to the "Rotting Antichrist" name. Kerrick, I'm glad you feel the same way - and I completely agree that the anti-anti-Christian approach is little more than a big ugly bruise to the Christian scene... so what do you think we should do about this? I personally think that if he's going to have a team of new people, he should consider renaming the project, even subtly. "Rotting Disbelief" almost says the same thing without attacking anyone directly and is a million times more original. That's my vote if a name change is on the table. He can take credit for it too. Regarding this being a grind zine with the occasional black metal, it all depends on what the subtitle is for the zine. Is this labeled as a grind zine? If so, then black metal content is just weird. Is it labeled as an extreme metal zine or not specified at all? If so, that's cool if he had mostly grind - we're here to bring the black metal balance. Also, I'd love to interview people/bands myself and would be happy to contribute with this sort of thing as well.
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 17, 2015 16:53:16 GMT -6
I definitely didn't get the feeling it'd be a grind-only zine. I think just Christian extreme music in general. I asked about heavy/power/thrash and he's not opposed to having some of that in there, but that wouldn't be the focus. He doesn't care much for doooooooooom but I'd probably help fill that gap in. As for the name... yeah, we'd need to figure that out. That's a big one. Also, I think it'd be a good idea to get a professional logo made. Jason of Metal Helm has done some and I'm pretty impressed. I believe he did the Firegate logo and I think it's sweet!
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Post by kimmo on Sept 18, 2015 4:08:34 GMT -6
Oh, it wasnt a zine that was mocking me, just some random people at a discussion forum. I mostly just dont care, though if it is a about a certain issue about christianity, I try to use my understanding to prove them wrong if necessary. I still love writing there cos there are a bunch of people who genuinely seem interested in what I have to say, also about the faith matters. So I guess I am sort of a role model to them in some way, whether I like it or not. It all seems very strange cos I havent been accustomed to being in spotlight about my faith, but I guess this might be God's way of training me to stand for His Word, as I used to be somewhat ashaimed of what I believe, even though I did not necessarily have doubts about it but it was more about my self esteem than anything else I guess.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 18, 2015 10:06:11 GMT -6
That Fire Gate logo is SWEET. I designed the Ankou Awaits and Orationem logos... I'm not an expert logo maker, but I'm free so - LOL
Sorry Kimmo, both that that happened to you... and that I didn't fully understand what happened. Forums are almost a different animal completely - some places are just completely out of control.
Sometimes its best to just not feed the trolls.
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 21, 2015 22:52:13 GMT -6
Hey so I just got off the phone with Benjamin and he talked with the other guy involved and they're totally down to change the name. He asked if we had any ideas and I didn't have any, but he came up with Metal Monastery. I totally dig the name. It's simple and incorporates both the music and faith elements, plus it sorta rolls off the tongue. What do you y'all think? Or does anyone have any better ideas? It's going to be a bit of a hassle for him to change everything over in terms of FB page, email, etc. So just out of respect to him and what he's doing, I'd like to give him some sort of assurance of our commitment before we tell him to go ahead and make these changes.
Right now, they use Facebook to communicate within. And honestly, that's the easiest way I know of. You have a "secret" group that only members can see and post in. You can create new threads, add documents, etc. Does everyone have a FB account or would be willing to create one for this?
So once we have a name set, can we get a roster of who's willing to be a part of this, under what capacity (writing reviews, interviews, artwork, etc.), and if you've got a Facebook or are willing to create an account for this?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2015 4:35:45 GMT -6
I liked Thomas' suggestion of calling it Rotting Disbelief.
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Post by kimmo on Sept 22, 2015 12:05:20 GMT -6
Personally I am not on Facebook, I left it some years ago cos I grew tired of all the drama and did not want to start deleting bunch of people. I might return with a more limited "fan base" though. I have been considering it, actually.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 22, 2015 19:44:05 GMT -6
I'm good with Metal Monastery - that sounds like a magazine that isn't grind, and it doesn't have an "anti" front! Strangely enough, there is a Metal Monastery Facebook page. The google preview mentions "extreme metal", but it doesn't look like the page is up. ...is this the "secret" site Kerrick?
There's also a Metal "Monestery" channel on YouTube for metal reviews... but the guy looks young so it might be a typo.
I'm sorry - I don't have a Facebook "account", though I do have a Facebook "page" for Ankou Awaits. Its not so much a drama thing for me as it is a conspiracy thing. (Facebook reads and distributes your personal information, even when you're not logged in.)
I did figure out how to "message" people via e-mail without an account though....
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Post by kimmo on Sept 23, 2015 7:29:56 GMT -6
I could do interviews for finnish bands, but of course the foreign ones too. What do youguys think about interviewing an occasional non-christian band as well? I used to enjoy those features on HM magazine, often they seemed like they really took time to get to know what the bands about but then they also asked what they think about the whole christian -thing. It sometimes surprised me how some people that I might have assumed to have a very negative stance, actually were pretty interested to talk about it.
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