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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 10, 2019 16:21:46 GMT -6
That's 4 days in a row of recording drums. ↑ Fixed. ....and done. I'll start recording guitars my next day off work. (Wednesday)
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 23, 2019 12:29:37 GMT -6
I'd say I'm about 20% done with the music for this album. I ran into some production issues before I started laying down guitars - one of my plugins apparently died (?) so I'm flying blind on EQs... I think?...
Took a few hours that particular day, but I got it figured out how to work around it, and it sounds like a minor production improvement over prior releases. (comparing with listening via the trifecta - PC speakers, PC headphones and phone earbuds)
A few things different from prior Orationem releases: - shorter tracks. We're talking between 3 and 4 minutes and there will most likely be 9-11 of them. I like how this worked for "To Never Forget" and I like how its working for this. - No starts and stops between songs. Sure, one instrument/vocals may stop for a bit in the song, but the rest of the ensemble will keep going. - The technicality is similar to the Trve Holy Black Metal album. It dawned on me that "always technical" is actually less "variety" than "some technical" and "some hooks". - Orationem already has 6 albums of my-words prayers. Between that and a book of said prayers, I think I've said enough IMO. I'm pulling "a Disgyblaeth" for this 7th Orationem. (album name = *insert book of bible name here*, song names = *chapter X verses Y-Z*) I'm thinking "Psalms" but I'll research to see if there's another book that has a collection of prayers I like better. - I haven't done "clean vocals" since 2013 for Ankou Awaits - Wyllt. No, I'm not "singing words" on this like I am that album, but I can hold a tune, and enough tracks, I can be my own make shift "choir" with enough layers. Its subtle, and only compliments what the guitars are doing, but +1 atmosphere, variety and consistent-creepy intros/outros.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 29, 2019 9:20:18 GMT -6
I can be my own make shift "choir" with enough layers. WHY!? WHY have I not done this before for Orationem?!? Its working out better than I could have imagined. Oh well, that will make this album stand out more then.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 5, 2019 13:12:37 GMT -6
Wow. I am very satisfied with this doom track. Also, never thought thrashy bits would work for Orationem, but that's gone well too. Getting close to the "halfway done with music" mark. I'm guessing finished October, released November... but that's just a guess. Last I talked to Duane, he had a few releases ahead of this one I'm working on, but I'm definitely not in any rush. Just striking because the iron's hot.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 11, 2019 12:39:46 GMT -6
I wasn't going to do a production sample, then I was, then I wasn't, then I was... Might as well bite the bullet. I've done it before. As much as I wanted to grab from intense blasting or something differently structured, I decided to grab part of a double-bass riff - something that shows specifically with and without this "choir". The sample is about 30 seconds long, no vocals. (not recorded yet - I'm unsure of the lyrics even at this point) orationem.com/2019sample.mp3The music I've written/recorded for this, I'm satisfied - but I'll be completely honest, I'm not completely satisfied with the production. Unfortunately, I either don't have the words to adequately describe what I think this needs, or I simply don't even know what I think this needs - either way, its not quite there yet. (if i had to narrow down my guess, its getting the EQs changed for those guitars, but everything I've tried doesn't help and I'm still flying blind on EQs after my plugin died) I'd love to have feedback from any and everyone, pros and cons. Even if its not detailed - this is good, this is bad, etc. I do plan on tweaking the production further, and I'm equipped to make detailed changes and revert back to the original recording, but I don't want to get further sidetracked on "production" while I still have more music to write.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Sept 11, 2019 18:18:14 GMT -6
I like it! If this were my recording, I'd probably add a bit more bass to the guitar layer. Maybe turn down the "treble" a bit. Maybe do just a tiny bit of compression on the drums. But then again, my music tends to be a bit more atmospheric and less focused on normal metal instrumentation than your music tends to be, so the result of ^ that advice, may not be the sound you're going for.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 11, 2019 20:28:03 GMT -6
I'm sure the drum compression may change if I end up using different mastering algorithms. I agree with you completely on guitar. Yes, more of a bass presence, and less treble in the guitar. I'm glad you like it!
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 13, 2019 12:49:36 GMT -6
Would you bros consider this sample (same clip as above) an improvement to the production? orationem.com/2019sample-1b.mp3I think it is. The drums have more presence, and the guitars sound less "tinny" to me. XD EDIT: Forgot to clean out the pick-noise. Done. :B
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Sept 14, 2019 18:24:56 GMT -6
Sorry for the late reply.
When I click on the 2nd link, I get a 404 error.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 14, 2019 19:17:59 GMT -6
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Sept 15, 2019 22:15:43 GMT -6
... That one works for some reason, haha! Yeah, this new sample definitely sounds more "professional" I like it!
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Post by jazzhead on Sept 16, 2019 14:38:23 GMT -6
The 2nd sample is definitely a bit of an upgrade. Maybe it's the sample rate, or my crappy earbuds, but the layers sound really dense and almost oppressive - and that's not a bad thing! That's one of the reasons I love Orationem - your sound is totally original and unique. Looking forward to hearing more!
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 20, 2019 17:29:38 GMT -6
I got the music for 6 songs done. I'm guessing that's about 20-21 minutes total so far. I'm pretty happy with it. There's a few times recording the "choir" parts, where I'll be off key. Sometimes it's oof and I delete it. Sometimes it sounds SICK...and it stays. XD
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 27, 2019 15:10:24 GMT -6
Well that's music for 7 songs done. I swear I won't count down to 10, but I am going for 10. XD Doing another backup too. I've never "lost music" due to computer issues and I'm not about to start...
I was hoping to finish this album in October. My going rate has been 1 song a week. (had one week I missed, another week I got 2 done) I think the rate I'm going, I'll get it!
I have a feeling though, I'll enter "TWO SONGS LEFT" mode and may studio-binge the last two. XD
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 12, 2019 11:27:22 GMT -6
I have the music for 9 songs done. Just 1 more to go. The total running time for those 9.... about 32 minutes. Each track is literally about 3m30s in length. ...so 10 tracks should be 35+ minutes. I ended up re-recording guitars and "choir" for about half of the 1st track I did. I'd say EVERY album I've put together, the first song I record is a little bit different in "style" (for lack of better words) than the later tracks I put together.... This is the first time I've felt where the 1st track I did, felt a little too different than the other tracks. I'm REALLY happy that the re-recorded parts sound like they've always been there. Same levels gave the same results - for the win. I've actually gone through and removed some choir parts from songs. Not that they didn't sound great - but on behalf of variety. All tracks have either some or "more than some" choir. No tracks have no choir. No tracks have all choir.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 13, 2019 8:40:51 GMT -6
I talked with Duane yesterday about this album. He told me "I'm ready when you are." so.... most likely, I'll be sending everything over to him....
...before Halloween. :B
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 15, 2019 17:30:27 GMT -6
The music for all 10 songs is done. What's left? Lyrics. Record vocals. Artwork. It don't take that long to record vocals for a half hour of music - if my throat holds up, I can get that done in a day. (my recent voice-maintaining-strategy is to shove a super menthol cough drop in each cheek BEFORE I bark, howl and screech. I wouldn't keep doing it if it didn't work!) I like the last album artwork, but I want to step up my game. Still black/white maybe/probably.... but I want more detail of something this go-around. I have no idea what I want to do for art yet, but I can often "see" what I want to do better when I have finished tracks to listen to. ...if that makes sense. A few things different from prior Orationem releases: - shorter tracks. We're talking between 3 and 4 minutes and there will most likely be 9-11 of them. I like how this worked for "To Never Forget" and I like how its working for this. - No starts and stops between songs. Sure, one instrument/vocals may stop for a bit in the song, but the rest of the ensemble will keep going. - The technicality is similar to the Trve Holy Black Metal album. It dawned on me that "always technical" is actually less "variety" than "some technical" and "some hooks". - Orationem already has 6 albums of my-words prayers. Between that and a book of said prayers, I think I've said enough IMO. I'm pulling "a Disgyblaeth" for this 7th Orationem. (album name = *insert book of bible name here*, song names = *chapter X verses Y-Z*) I'm thinking "Psalms" but I'll research to see if there's another book that has a collection of prayers I like better. - I haven't done "clean vocals" since 2013 for Ankou Awaits - Wyllt. No, I'm not "singing words" on this like I am that album, but I can hold a tune, and enough tracks, I can be my own make shift "choir" with enough layers. Its subtle, and only compliments what the guitars are doing, but +1 atmosphere, variety and consistent-creepy intros/outros.I was successful pulling these off, minus what's strike through. These songs deserve proper names. Luckily, modern Bibles have "titles" for "sections" and I'll most likely just use that - with of course a reference to where the chapters/verses are. For intros/outros - I think I am going to do something similar to When We Are Wounded. That interesting thread about Field Recordings has me inspired, and like a jazzhead said for the last album, It feels to me like a thread running through the whole recording, tying everything together. ...but obviously I want to go with something "different" and definitely more "noticeable" than EM noise. (as some people heard it fine, some people didn't) I'm honestly leaning toward "royalty free" "a winter blizzard" - and I'll see how that sounds once I get to that point, but that's not a definite. I'm getting riffs from this album stuck in my head, even when I haven't even listened to those riffs for a few days. That's awesomely annoying terribly great a good sign I think. :B
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 15, 2019 19:50:41 GMT -6
If you gents are willing to spoil yourselves on an 18 second music-only sample on how one of the song starts, I would appreciate an opinion on one thing. orationem.com/sample2019_2.mp3Are the drums too loud in the mix for blasts? Its the same template/algorithms/mix as the 2019sample-1b.mp3 sample I posted earlier... and I think it sounds "pretty good" and "I like it!". ...but I'm pondering that question, which is why I'm asking you bros. XD I gotta keep blasts in mind for the mix. There's quite a bit of that in the music.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Oct 15, 2019 20:15:14 GMT -6
If you gents are willing to spoil yourselves on an 18 second music-only sample on how one of the song starts, I would appreciate an opinion on one thing. orationem.com/sample2019_2.mp3Are the drums too loud in the mix for blasts? Its the same template/algorithms/mix as the 2019sample-1b.mp3 sample I posted earlier... and I think it sounds "pretty good" and "I like it!". ...but I'm pondering that question, which is why I'm asking you bros. XD I gotta keep blasts in mind for the mix. There's quite a bit of that in the music. I'd say it depends on what you're going for. If you're going for an angrier, more brutal sound, I'd leave it as it is. But if you're going for a more, like, "comprehensive" metal album where all the instruments get some breathing room, I would say the blasts are a bit too loud. I can hear the other instruments, but the drums definitely take up a vast majority of the "space" of the music while all the other layers are sort of left to flow by underneath them.
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Post by Kaiheijinshu on Oct 15, 2019 23:33:53 GMT -6
I agree with what NI said.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 16, 2019 10:04:35 GMT -6
My brother shares both you guy's sentiment. I'm glad I asked! The good thing is, taming drums in the mix (or changing the mix) won't be hard to do. What will take a little time is figuring it out. I've been churning ideas in my head on how to go about that, (my brother, who has his own studio, had some input that helped form my ideas) but I probably won't pick that fight until after I have the vocals recorded. (since that will be something else in the mix, competing with the other parts) I think with the music written for this album, I did pretty decent juggling furious and atmospheric, fast and slow, hot and cold, melodic and harsh, etc. I think if I aimed the mix just for "atmospheric", the parts that are maximum fury, won't shine as bright. If I aimed the mix just for "furious", then I could muffle some of the "feels" in other parts. I'm positive I can find the middle ground. Thanks for the help bros!
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 16, 2019 10:42:38 GMT -6
but I probably won't pick that fight until after I have the vocals recorded. Fail! Apparently, my self control with this is low. If I'm thinking about production, which I am, then that's what I want to work on. I'm positive I can find the middle ground. Testing. I see an improvement. (same exact 18 seconds as the last sample I posted) orationem.com/sample2019_2a.mp3Listening to both samples side by side, its more noticeable to me now that the drums WERE too loud...
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 16, 2019 15:30:14 GMT -6
I got the lyrics figured out. They will be from the New Living Translation version of Psalm 119. Tracks 1 - verses 33–40 2 - verses 41–48 3 - verses 49–56 4 - verses 57–64 5 - verses 73–80 6 - verses 105–112 7 - verses 129–136 8 - verses 137–144 9 - verses 145–152 10 - verses 169–176 I didn't pick this because its the longest chapter in the bible, nor because it's "the entire Hebrew alphabet prayers", or because its acrostic poems. I found this to be a great choice because all the prayers (and they are prayers) are in a similar format to each other. (all very similar, saying about the same thing in the same way) So.... this would probably qualify as a "concept album". Obviously, I don't have 22 tracks to encompass all 22 letters of the Hebrew alphabet covered in this chapter. Some of the sections, didn't quite capture the same "theme" of what I've done for Orationem before, but I'm happy to discover, many of them did. I spent too much time trying to coin cool song names from the "letters" I used (He, Waw, Zayin, Heth, Yodh, Nun, Pe, Tsadhe, Qoph and Taw) but I became worried that I would misinterpret, misconstrue or use a favored transliteration instead of another favored transliteration.... so I've decided to do what I've done for prior Orationem releases. I'll name the songs based on a brief line in the lyrics themselves. Album name, probably the same, but I'll figure that out later. Wouldn't be the first time the lyrics and vocals were finished before I knew what the song and album names were. XD I may start on recording vocals tomorrow since I want to rearrance the order of the songs for the album, different from the order that I recorded them.
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Post by drawnsword on Oct 16, 2019 19:08:37 GMT -6
I really dig your Psalm 119 prayer concept album idea. Maybe you could do a double album with all 22 prayers (i thought i counted 24) or return to it as a part 2 album sometime in the future. When you think about it theres many prayers in the bible to build songs around and concept albums. I feel inspired to go read psalm 119 now.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Oct 16, 2019 19:43:13 GMT -6
Testing. I see an improvement. (same exact 18 seconds as the last sample I posted) orationem.com/sample2019_2a.mp3Listening to both samples side by side, its more noticeable to me now that the drums WERE too loud... This sounds a LOT better! About everything else you wrote today: Sounds good! I just don't have a lot to say in response to it.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 16, 2019 22:51:47 GMT -6
I really dig your Psalm 119 prayer concept album idea. Maybe you could do a double album with all 22 prayers (i thought i counted 24) or return to it as a part 2 album sometime in the future. When you think about it theres many prayers in the bible to build songs around and concept albums. I feel inspired to go read psalm 119 now. I've been in Psalms all afternoon. I was a little surprised to find out how many musicians referenced Psalms 119 in their music. A composer in 1894 had a piece based on verses 114, 117, 119 and 120. Amy grant had a song based on verse 105. This Orationem, that will be the start of Track 6. XD I also found a publishing company that has a music worship book (hymnal?) that includes all 150 Psalms verbatim KJV. ____________ So I've been looking up words. A Psalter is a volume including psalms. (I'm guessing all of Psalms, like that book I just mentioned) A Psalmist is someone who writes or composes psalms, "especially biblical psalms" (I didn't write Psalms. I don't write psalms?) A Psalmody is Psalms arranged for music or performed with music. (singing Psalms) A Psalmodist is someone who is 1) well versed in Psalmody 2) arranges Psalms to music Some dictionaries a Psalmodist is a Psalmist, which is confusing... it seems to me maybe they conflated psalms and Psalms? Not gonna lie. "The Psalmodist" came to mind as an album title. Thoughts? Maybe it came to mind because I can think of a few other examples of "The *something*ist" elsewhere in metal.
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Post by drawnsword on Oct 17, 2019 0:58:40 GMT -6
Interesting! How about; " A Psalter of Psalmody in Psalmodist" In reading Psalm 119 i remembered long ago i set out to memorize it, maybe got as far as verse 16. Funny how some Psalms are popular like 119, 23, 91 and Psalm one.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Oct 17, 2019 9:46:16 GMT -6
I went to a Christian school as a kid. Pretty much everyone had Psalm 23 memorized. XD Slight change of plans about the lyrics. Also, I'm slightly annoyed about it. I'm glad I looked into this before I started recording, but the NLT version of the Bible is copyrighted by Tyndale Publishers. Actually, a lot of Bible versions are copyright. While there's a fairly generous "fair use guideline" that these versions seem to share, they pretty much cover that if its their version on/for/in something sold for money (their examples included shirts, recorded music, and other things) written permission from them is required before proceeding. Sorry, but I don't like that - at all. I mean, **its the Holy Bible**. They didn't write it, they're just used their wording for it (someone else's writing) and somehow calling it theirs. Honestly, this is killing my love for the NLT version a little bit. I mean *coins a transliteration of the Bible* = "this is MINE, you need my permission to use it" *coins a transliteration of Shakespeare* - "I just patchwork plagiarized Shakespeare." LUCKILY, there are "public domain" versions of the Bible - not very many, but I'm glad SOME people "get it". Out of all of them available, the WEB version (World English Bible) fits the modern vernacular the best, IMO. I'm glad this isn't really a setback. -_-
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Oct 17, 2019 10:24:20 GMT -6
It's always annoyed me how people try to copyright the Bible, too. The Gospel isn't meant to be copyrighted!
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Post by barabbas on Oct 17, 2019 13:28:35 GMT -6
the NLT version of the Bible is copyrighted by Tyndale Publishers. Actually, a lot of Bible versions are copyright. While there's a fairly generous "fair use guideline" that these versions seem to share, It is a massive annoyance, but nearly all modern translations are copyrighted. Its complexity makes Bible translation very difficult. It requires teams of dozens of scholars working together. The work isn't done when the translation is done, either. They go back and make updates based on new linguistic and archeological discoveries, etc. So the HCSB becomes the CSB; the NIV becomes the TNIV, and so forth. Therefore, it's also very costly to make a Bible translation. The good news is that copyright holders for Bible translations are far more lenient than others. They recognize that the Bible will be used and cited far more than any other books or copyrighted materials. You'd probably be fine with paraphrasing or making an amalgam of translations. Source attribution could be good, too. Edit: Conclusion I had in mind, but didn't state: I think you're doing the right thing, Thomas. A less conscientious and responsible person would just push forward and say it didn't matter. I hope this "problem" leads to creativity.
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