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Post by Deepfriar on Sept 3, 2015 8:38:29 GMT -6
I stopped believing a long time ago that God has a 'perfect will' for everyone and our actions can move us in and out of it. I believe God's will is for as many as possible to know Him and Jesus Christ and for those who do know Him to operate in love toward others. That's it.
I believe most everything is left to chance. I believe God can (and does) intervene supernaturally sometimes but that this is rare and something personal, having nothing to do with merit or how 'holy' one lives.
I don't believe, when someone dies, it was 'their time' to go or 'God's will'... I believe it is appointed to man once to die, and sometimes the cosmos is cruel. He had to intervene more influentially and directly in the Old Testament to honor covenants and protect the 'seed' (Christ), but I believe this side of the cross God mostly 'steps back' in order for free will to remain intact (His grace is sufficient for us).
I know some of these views are unpopular, but it's just my honest assessment based on what I've seen in my own (and others') lives.
That being said, I am divorced more than once and I do not believe there is one particular person that God has for us. I do, however, believe that once you do marry that you should try to preserve the marriage (but not at the expense of your own integrity, happiness, or self-worth). I do, however, believe that God has blessed me with my current wife. I am incredibly thankful for a healthy relationship and we are very happy together. All good things in life are from God (because without Him 'goodness' would not exist) so I give Him thanks.
I believe that what we call "soulmates" is actually 'kindred spirits' and does not even necessarily have to be a romantic thing.
I am a bit off-topic so I will reign it in and say that having a significant other should not be the most important thing for us but it is our nature to seek companionship regardless and throughout my life I have put a lot of importance on being "married" in the hopes of correcting where my family life went wrong as a child and to have guiltless 'sex'. I think the church and religion has put too much pressure on people about sex. Sure, in a perfect world no one would have sex before marriage. But newsflash: this world isn't perfect. I'm not saying I'm proud of my pre-marital escapades, but it's part of our human experience and discovering our bodies and who we are and modern culture seems to teach that living with someone before you marry is preferable because you don't truly know how you will get along with someone until you live with them for a while (and I can't confirm or deny this, from a Biblical standpoint). Also, it is commonly believed that knowing how someone is 'in bed' is something that's important to know before marriage. I do not necessarily agree with this and I would not base my emotional relationships on something so primal and physical, but it is important to many people and who am I to judge them?
People aren't condemned because of their actions or fleshly weaknesses. They are condemned only because they have not believe on Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
I try to show love to people more than I try not to 'sin'.
*shrug*
*ends abruptly*
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 3, 2015 11:23:01 GMT -6
I had a nice time last week as I went on a date Definately a nice woman, I dunno if she is the love of my life, but I really wanna hang out with her more and I understood that the feeling is mutual. Good times, I guess. Nice dude! Haha if you claimed she was the love of your life upon first meeting her, I may be a little skeptical. One step at a time. What'd you two do? What kind of stuff do you have in common? Do you have a follow-up date set yet? Keep us posted! I stopped believing a long time ago that God has a 'perfect will' for everyone and our actions can move us in and out of it. I believe God's will is for as many as possible to know Him and Jesus Christ and for those who do know Him to operate in love toward others. That's it. I believe most everything is left to chance. I believe God can (and does) intervene supernaturally sometimes but that this is rare and something personal, having nothing to do with merit or how 'holy' one lives. I don't believe, when someone dies, it was 'their time' to go or 'God's will'... I believe it is appointed to man once to die, and sometimes the cosmos is cruel. He had to intervene more influentially and directly in the Old Testament to honor covenants and protect the 'seed' (Christ), but I believe this side of the cross God mostly 'steps back' in order for free will to remain intact (His grace is sufficient for us). I know some of these views are unpopular, but it's just my honest assessment based on what I've seen in my own (and others') lives. That being said, I am divorced more than once and I do not believe there is one particular person that God has for us. I do, however, believe that once you do marry that you should try to preserve the marriage (but not at the expense of your own integrity, happiness, or self-worth). I do, however, believe that God has blessed me with my current wife. I am incredibly thankful for a healthy relationship and we are very happy together. All good things in life are from God (because without Him 'goodness' would not exist) so I give Him thanks. I believe that what we call "soulmates" is actually 'kindred spirits' and does not even necessarily have to be a romantic thing. I am a bit off-topic so I will reign it in and say that having a significant other should not be the most important thing for us but it is our nature to seek companionship regardless and throughout my life I have put a lot of importance on being "married" in the hopes of correcting where my family life went wrong as a child and to have guiltless 'sex'. I think the church and religion has put too much pressure on people about sex. Sure, in a perfect world no one would have sex before marriage. But newsflash: this world isn't perfect. I'm not saying I'm proud of my pre-marital escapades, but it's part of our human experience and discovering our bodies and who we are and modern culture seems to teach that living with someone before you marry is preferable because you don't truly know how you will get along with someone until you live with them for a while (and I can't confirm or deny this, from a Biblical standpoint). Also, it is commonly believed that knowing how someone is 'in bed' is something that's important to know before marriage. I do not necessarily agree with this and I would not base my emotional relationships on something so primal and physical, but it is important to many people and who am I to judge them? People aren't condemned because of their actions or fleshly weaknesses. They are condemned only because they have not believe on Jesus Christ, the Son of God. I try to show love to people more than I try not to 'sin'. *shrug* *ends abruptly* ^I can agree to most everything there. While I agree, the church as a whole has been pretty harsh on pre-marital sex, I do not think that the church is in the wrong there. I fully believe that God intended for one man and one woman to only have sex with each other and in the context of marriage. As I mentioned earlier, I've learned this lesson through experiencing my own moral failures and the effects of those failures. Obviously it's not an "unforgivable sin" as many might have you believe, but I do believe sex outside of marriage is indeed sinful. The statistics I've heard quoted imply a correlation between living with someone prior to marriage and a higher chance of that marriage ending in divorce. As for your question of who are you to judge someone who is living with their boyfriend/girlfriend? That depends on whether or not they claim to be Christians. We are called time and again in the Bible to "judge" and correct our brothers' and sisters' actions (with loving mercy), though specifically NOT to judge those who are not believers by the standards God has set up for us. In this day and age of political correctness and moral relativism, calling anyone out on sinful actions is quite uncool and unfortunately that causes me to avoid doing so most of the time. But I believe God is pretty clear in our roles.
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Post by Deepfriar on Sept 3, 2015 14:14:49 GMT -6
Right I agree that it is indeed sinful, but putting so much pressure on young people (at least in my experience) tends to push them away from God when they start having sexual desires because they feel ashamed. I think what it boils down to is that there should be more open talk about it from the parents? Not sure what the solution is, but I know making kids feel alienated is not the answer.
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 3, 2015 14:32:39 GMT -6
Hmm, that's a good point. I don't know what the answer is either... With the general necessity of both parents working coupled with much of the modern way of thinking, parents aren't "parenting" their children much, but are instead relying more and more heavily on their kids teachers and such - who [with the exception of private schools] are government employees and therefore have many restrictions in terms of spirituality and such. I do believe that the parents need to take charge more. From what I've seen, it seems like this moral relativism within Christianity may be the bigger issue. Someone very close to me is a proclaimed Christian but is effectively living with her boyfriend (who isn't a believer). And she sees that as fine. Back when I was messing around with my (now ex) girlfriend in college, I justified it in my mind and didn't have anyone keeping me accountable to tell me otherwise. And I really regret that now, looking back. It was foolish and wrong. Anyways, I think part of why I fell into that trap was that it seemed acceptable socially and so much of modern Christianity is forming itself around social norms instead of The Word. I'll stop ranting now...
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Post by Deepfriar on Sept 3, 2015 14:55:08 GMT -6
I am probably biased because of my own personal experience. I was raised in a very strict Christian household and it just made me go wild in my 20's. There has to be some sort of balance. I even got married earlier than I wanted to because my Christian high school was going to kick me out for living with a woman I was not married to and moving back home was not an option. I think that's what they wanted to do (force me to move back home), but I duped them and got married instead.
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 3, 2015 15:47:44 GMT -6
Wow, that's pretty harsh/extreme on your school's end... As you said, it's all a heart matter, not a sin matter. Choosing into Christ is what matters, the "fruits" will follow. So often we focus so much on right and wrong that we forget what really matters. I don't mean to excuse any sin or shove it under the rug, but the focus should always be encouraging each other to steadfastly pursue Christ, not impose/enforce rules.
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Post by blake on Sept 4, 2015 7:11:21 GMT -6
I went to a Christian school as well and I had a very good friend that was a foreign exchange student from Indonesia. His host family found a pack of cigarettes and a playboy magazine in his room one day and reported it to the school. As a result he was deported back to Indonesia. A lot of people were upset about it, myself included. to this day I have never been able to locate him
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Post by Deepfriar on Sept 4, 2015 11:55:55 GMT -6
I went to a Christian school as well and I had a very good friend that was a foreign exchange student from Indonesia. His host family found a pack of cigarettes and a playboy magazine in his room one day and reported it to the school. As a result he was deported back to Indonesia. A lot of people were upset about it, myself included. to this day I have never been able to locate him That's a really sad story.
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 4, 2015 12:06:09 GMT -6
Yeah, wow that is terrible. Where is the love in that?
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Post by blake on Sept 14, 2015 7:00:39 GMT -6
I think I have some important decisions to make right now in regards to relationships. I'd appreciate prayers for guidance.
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 14, 2015 10:03:20 GMT -6
You got it my friend. Prayers being sent up now.
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Post by Deepfriar on Sept 14, 2015 10:50:50 GMT -6
I think I have some important decisions to make right now in regards to relationships. I'd appreciate prayers for guidance. Praying for you. "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him." (James 1:5 NKJV)
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Post by blake on Sept 14, 2015 12:42:04 GMT -6
Thanks
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 14, 2015 17:58:43 GMT -6
I'll spare everyone the quote wars because this post is massive.
...Deepfriar, I agree completely with what you said. I think one of the reasons I had as major of a rebellion as I did was because I spent 21 years cooped up in a Christian bubble my parents built for me. ...so when I got a taste of the world, I went HOG WILD. Drifting toward the topic of music for a second, one of the reasons I fell so hard for extreme (Christian) metal was because my parents spoonfed me contemporary Christian most of my kid life.
I'm convinced I wouldn't have the passion for black metal today if it weren't for being (strong word here but I'm using it) deprived of it in my youth. I'm convinced I wouldn't have fell as hard as I did as a young adult if every faction of the world (including metal) wasn't treated like a forbidden fruit to me. Regardless, it happened the way it was supposed to.
That being said, I feel like both DeepFriar and myself said the same things in regards to pre-marital sex experiences and were reeled back in (rightly so I might add, my friend) by Kerrick. I'd like to explain, biblicaly why I there there may be a difference in viewpoints here.
I'm sure everyone is familiar with the Biblical concept of "all sin being equal in God's eyes". Perhaps you've wielded it in the past - I know I have. The backbone to this is Romans "wages of (all) sin is death" and James 2:10 "if you follow the whole law and break a little part of it, you're breaking the whole law."
Because all sin = death, therefore, all sins are equally bad... is actually a logical fallacy. Sin equaling death, which I agree with, is not the same idea as all sins are equal in God's eyes, which I disagree with. Those are two completely different ideas. My mental reasoning behind this just can't accept that stealing a pack of gum or raping a 9 year old would somehow be "the same crime" to God, or anyone in the universe. My scriptural reasoning:
1st point. Matthew 12:31-32 talks about, "There's sin, then there's blasphemy". There's one sin that's obviously different. 2nd point. 1st Corinthians 6:18, "There's sin towards your body (sexual immorality) and then there's sin "outside" the body." Ok, those sins are different. 3rd point. Plank eye. No, not the band - why would there be a measure of splinter vs. plank in the Bible if all sin is equal?
...which brings me to sexual immorality. I think the church and a lot of Christians make sexual immorality and sex outside of marriage synonymous, and I don't entirely agree with that. To me there's a NIGHT AND DAY difference between sleeping with someone that you eventually marry, that you have every intention of spending the rest of your life with... and just being promiscuous, sleeping with everyone, casual sex, no commitment.
In terms of long term monogamous relationships, what's the difference between sinning sex and holy God graced sex? The time a ceremony took place. That's it.
Think about it. The sex act is the same. The person is the same. The feelings are the same. From another planet perspective, who would have thought something wrong could have been made right by just standing right next to a preacher for an hour long sermon while wearing way too expensive clothing.
I mean, in a way, it kind of blows my mind that sex with my woman in July was "sin", but the same sex with the same woman, who I felt exactly the same about in August, wasn't. (married August 1st, just to remind everyone)
Interjection, I remember a "teen convention" years ago where there was a big group talk with a pastor about sex. One of the guys, being kind of smart, said "What if there was a nuclear disaster and only one man and one woman left. Could they never have sex and procreate if no one was there to marry them?". The preacher's response was totally cool and I agree - he said, "That's when you and this woman, go before God, ask for his blessing and her hand in marriage."
...so marriage could be two people going before God without a preacher, but only if a preacher isn't around?
I completely get not having sex before marriage in case the relationship doesn't work out.... but hell, the relationship could not work out IN the marriage! Mine took 2 and a half years to die. My brother, his died after 8 years. My cousin's died after 10 years. Louis CK had a funny bit, talking about how when he got married, he felt like he couldn't "leave", then when his kids were born, he felt like, "Before the kids, I could have left!"
Bottom line, yes - I agree sex outside of marriage is a sin. I would also like to point out that driving 67 in a 55 is also sinning. ...but where sex with a love one outside of marriage and speeding is scaled in the degree of sin, I think both those things are more of bad idea that could really damage your quality of life than disappointing God to a level of grief. Random sex with a lot of people, in my opinion, is considerably worse in regards to the destruction to one's self and others.
I hope that sounds more like a sober conclusion than it does minimizing and justifying.
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Post by blake on Sept 15, 2015 6:58:04 GMT -6
I think I see where your coming from and I'm inclined to agree. Being promiscuous and actively looking to sleep with women for the purpose of lust and uncontrollable sexual desire I would call sexual immorality. Sex is meant to be an act of love afterall, and while that doesn't make it OK to cheat or be unfaithful just because you have butterflies in your stomach I suppose there could be some situations where this could be warranted.
The problem comes when people fool themselves into thinking they are in love, when it is just a fleeting excitement.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 15, 2015 13:07:16 GMT -6
Love plays a part, but to me, it's not the complete set variable. (I started loving the woman I married before we had sex) The biggest part of taking the sex plunge has to do with commitment.
Having sex with someone that you mutually want to spend the rest of your lives together doesn't even compare to having sex with someone because of hormones/lust.
On a side note, I typed "want" and my phone "corrected" it to "Wang". (Capitalized, like a name.) I'm sure DeepFriar would make a better pun out of that than I would, so I won't attempt it. Still...
Silly android phone.
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Post by Deepfriar on Sept 15, 2015 21:52:10 GMT -6
I typed "want" and my phone "corrected" it to "Wang".
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 16, 2015 16:14:56 GMT -6
Thomas Eversole, I definitely agree with you on the differing effects of sin, though we should probably clarify that sin has both worldly and spiritual consequences. While clearly, raping someone is far worse than watching porn, they're both sin and push the sinner further away from God. While He does indeed care about our physical well-being, He cares deeply for our hearts and relationships with Him. As for the question of what makes that wedding ceremony so special... I have a few thoughts on that. Yes, your feelings shouldn't be too different right before the wedding versus right after. But I don't think that's what it's necessarily about... The public announcement of marriage, saying the vows, and wearing the rings are all declarations of not just feelings towards one another, but to all your collective loved ones and to God. And that's about the highest level of commitment and accountability that people can do. Yes, stuff happens and marriages fall apart, but that is not the intent behind "until death do us part." That's just one of the many consequences of living in a fallen world. But I believe sex was designed to be between two people for the entirety of their lives. Waiting until that commitment has been made before man and God is the best (and only) place to draw that line IMO. All that being said... neither Veronika nor I want a wedding! [shoppingcart] I can't believe I found an awesome woman who doesn't want one. I do intend on having some sort of big celebration/get-together/potluck party or something at which we can include everyone in on our eventual decision to wed, but neither of us care about any fancy ceremony or whatever. The courthouse will do just fine. And speaking of awesome and non-traditional characteristics of her... she doesn't want a diamond ring either! Supposedly the whole diamond ring thing was fabricated by the diamond companies who intentionally restrict availability to jack up the prices (WARNING, language, but it's a fun video). So that'll save me a few thousand dollars come time to propose haha. And since we haven't had this smiley in a little while...
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 16, 2015 19:00:48 GMT -6
*singing* Kerrick and Veronika, sitting in a tree. You're gonna' have 9,000 babies! LOL That is cool you're keeping things simple and that she doesn't want a ring! My wife would have probably gotten over not getting a ring, but I wanted to. Yeah, it was a dent in my pocketbook, but sorry you'll miss out on the expression on Veronika's face of handing her a diamond. I'll never forget Kaytlyn's response. NEVER. Maybe you'll get her a diamond later? We might differ a little on the approach and outlook of sex before marriage, but we both agree its a sin. You're right, there are worldly and spiritual consequences to sin... but luckily, that's where forgiveness comes in. I'm definitely not saying its a free pass to sin, but God loves me and he can wash away any of my imperfections - as long as I do my absolute best to repent and live like him.
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Post by Deepfriar on Sept 17, 2015 7:25:01 GMT -6
Here's food for thought.
In 2 Samuel 12, God told king David that He had given him his master's house, and his master's "wives" into his bosom... and would have given him more if he would have asked.
I find it interesting that God gave David "wives"... it tells me that God does take culture into consideration with His dealings with His children. The culture back then was that a man could have multiple wives, and God gave David wives.
Just throwing that out there.
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 17, 2015 9:57:02 GMT -6
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 17, 2015 9:59:42 GMT -6
*singing* Kerrick and Veronika, sitting in a tree. You're gonna' have 9,000 babies! LOL That is cool you're keeping things simple and that she doesn't want a ring! My wife would have probably gotten over not getting a ring, but I wanted to. Yeah, it was a dent in my pocketbook, but sorry you'll miss out on the expression on Veronika's face of handing her a diamond. I'll never forget Kaytlyn's response. NEVER. Maybe you'll get her a diamond later? We might differ a little on the approach and outlook of sex before marriage, but we both agree its a sin. You're right, there are worldly and spiritual consequences to sin... but luckily, that's where forgiveness comes in. I'm definitely not saying its a free pass to sin, but God loves me and he can wash away any of my imperfections - as long as I do my absolute best to repent and live like him. Is the "9000 babies" a reference to Power Thirst??? There's some ridiculous amount of babies made if you drink that hahaha... Dang, we better get started! [shoppingcart] Yes, I do admit, I was kinda excited to get her a ring and give it to her. I'll still get some sort of ring, just not a diamond one. And you get a big AMEN from me to your last paragraph!
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Sept 17, 2015 12:06:18 GMT -6
Thank you! Yes, hooray for forgiveness for sure! Actually, the "9,000" I was thinking of was in regards to an ooooooooooooooooold YouTube meme. LOL
I just saw that Powerthirst commercial and that was pretty funny!
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Post by Kerrick on Sept 17, 2015 14:15:05 GMT -6
Hahaha classic! I think I remember seeing that episode on tv back in the day. I never got into that show but it was on right before Gundam Wing which I thought was awesome.
Yeah the Powerthirst commercial is hilarious.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Nov 1, 2015 7:49:55 GMT -6
How's things going with your woman Kerrick? I've seen a few posts on the CMR regarding your trip. Progressing nicely I hope. Everything is going great with me and my wife. ...but I've noticed a reoccurring issue. I don't know if I'd go as far to consider it a problem - if it is, its a high class one. It could be a problem if it gets worse though. It has to do with housekeeping. She will clean, but pretty much, she only cleans when she sees me doing it and feels guilty. There are a few exceptions, but the volume is low. She's not lazy - she works her butt off at her job and being an RN is tough and challenging work. ...She just doesn't prioritize cleaning the same way I do. My house isn't immaculate and I'm not a freak about it, but the first time I saw her house when we were still dating... it was abnormally cluttered and messy. Not hoarders gone wild, but too much stuff and the kitchen was not sanitary. (because she doesn't clean up spills when she makes them - she just cooks around them and then they dry on) My house is getting to slowly more and more resemble hers and I've been putting in extra hours of my time off just to keep my home tidy. If I didn't regularly clean and throw stuff away, my house would look like hers. I'm positive of that. I've got a 5 bedroom house and two of the bedrooms I've already lost. She's turned the entire rooms into her closets. Anyone else relate?
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Post by blake on Nov 1, 2015 8:46:05 GMT -6
I can relate to that completely. My wife is the same way. Everything in the house is a catch-all so the table, chairs etc all become cluttered. She will leave food out as well. Its usually not until we are going to have company that she has a massive panic cleanup day. Im the opposite. I like to clean as i go so theres no messes.
And as a result i cannot ever have anyone come over because she doesnt want to have to clean.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Nov 1, 2015 9:02:39 GMT -6
Everything in the house is a catch-all so the table, chairs etc all become cluttered. This! For some reason, the dining room table and on my stairs is where things start gathering. I have to ask my wife, "Dear, where do these go - they can't live on the stairs." Also, when she goes grocery shopping, she'll always buy things without checking to see what we already have. 4 boxes of Life cereal anyone? The only difference is that my wife doesn't have a panic clean mode - she doesn't think anything about inviting people to the house while its messy. (or at least when I consider it messy) ...and I look at her parent's house, its about the same way. My parent's house is IMMACULATE.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 11, 2015 20:33:05 GMT -6
Just a random funny conversation my wife and I had which captures how well her and I click. Certainly not the epitome of our relationship, and not the most memorable conversation ever, but still... ...and excellent piece of evidence for how she's perfect for me.
While in Long John Silvers and my wife and I are putting the leftover food we couldn't finish into a to-go box. My wife drops a french fry and it hits my foot. (I'm wearing sandals, as always, so I felt it)
Me: Bubby you dropped a fry and it hit my foot! My Wife: Your foot was hungry and I was just trying to feed it. Me: Yeah but my foot doesn't eat french fries. It likes to eat corn though. *grabs the half-wrapped corn on the cob and acts like I'm going to throw it at my foot* My Wife: *laughs* Bubby, don't ever change. Me: I change every day! My Wife: I mean you, not your underwear!
*sigh of contentment*
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Dec 26, 2015 16:56:05 GMT -6
Just a random funny conversation my wife and I had which captures how well her and I click. Certainly not the epitome of our relationship, and not the most memorable conversation ever, but still... ...and excellent piece of evidence for how she's perfect for me.
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Post by Kerrick on Dec 27, 2015 13:50:58 GMT -6
Hahaha I love it!
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