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Post by Thomas Eversole on Feb 16, 2019 16:29:50 GMT -6
With my opinion from the prior post, I would like to use some Biblical references. While not verses about immigration directly, they absolutely apply to immigration. From what I've researched, ALL modern countries have "immigration laws".
A few points - that I bolded. Verse 2 - the leaders of our countries have established the difference between trespassing, and proper residency/travel. Violating immigration laws is sinning against God, no ands ifs or buts about it. Verse 6 - Pay the taxes you owe. Illegal immigrants do not. ...because they are hiding... Verse 9 - "you must not want something someone else has" - also referred to as "coveting" in other Bible versions, which is one of the 10 commandments.
"You have nicer land so I'm going to take it for myself/my family without your permission" (which does describe illegal immigration) How is this NOT coveting? I'd say THEFT is also applicable...
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Feb 16, 2019 21:29:38 GMT -6
My country is like my house. I think part of the reason I differ from you and CW so much on this is, simply, I don't see countries as houses. All nations to me are just part of "the world". A big expanse of land and water that mankind inhabits. Restrictive immigration policies won't make me any safer than if I'm surrounded by all the murderers, mob families, rapists etc that already live here legally. The world is polluted by sin and America is no exception. National borders won't help preserve any traditions or culture that I value. I'm pretty much detached from all cultures and societies here on earth. (Edit: I should clarify, I was already like this before I was born again, and while many things have changed, these feelings have not. I don't identify any more with human cultures any more than I did before. If anything, knowing more of God's laws nowadays, I identify even less with human cultures.) The only "problem" I can think of, regarding my worldview, is those Christians who are only part of the faith because they live in a Christian country, because it's "expected of them", because it's how the community works, etc (extrinsic religiosity). They may be at risk if (America, Russia, etc) become too diversified. But I would also have to wonder, if their faith is really that shallow that merely being exposed to other ideas is a stumbling block, is there any real faith in them anyway?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2019 21:45:05 GMT -6
The only "problem" I can think of, regarding my worldview, is those Christians who are only part of the faith because they live in a Christian country, because it's "expected of them", because it's how the community works, etc (extrinsic religiosity). They may be at risk if (America, Russia, etc) become too diversified. But I would also have to wonder, if their faith is really that shallow that merely being exposed to other ideas is a stumbling block, is there any real faith in them anyway? There isn't any real faith if they're only a "Christian" because they live in a "Christian nation" anyway, I would say... I didn't necessarily conceptualize it as a house like Thomas did. I have just heard about all of the damage that mass immigration has caused in Europe (particularly in Sweden and Germany) and don't want America to make the same decision. While yes, the world is full of wicked people everywhere, the general culture that the migrants to Europe have brought simply does not value human rights in the way that Western culture, sinful as it is, does. I can relate to you, NI, in that I don't put a whole lot of value into culture, nor do I really feel as though I fit into it. If people would be willing to assimilate and work, then sure, bring them in. But what has happened in Europe is economic strain and a crime explosion.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Feb 16, 2019 22:17:45 GMT -6
A big expanse of land and water that mankind inhabits. Restrictive immigration policies won't make me any safer than if I'm surrounded by all the murderers, mob families, rapists etc that already live here legally. The world is polluted by sin and America is no exception. National borders won't help preserve any traditions or culture that I value. I agree with you. Immigrants don't commit any more crimes than residents... actually, last statistics I saw, they commit less crimes than the legal locals. But again, illegal immigration itself, is a crime. I don't see countries as houses. All nations to me are just part of "the world". The heart of my house/country example revolves entirely around "legal ports of entry". Sure the world is our oyster. Go about it the right way, we can travel, visit and reside wherever we wish - and be welcomed doing so. I would encourage anyone to move to another country if it meant "better" for them. ...but coming in the front door with permission is a completely different context than through a cracked window in the basement and being hidden.
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Post by anfauglith on Feb 17, 2019 11:34:01 GMT -6
A lot of input to think about it! (Again: thank you!) We had a discussion about the imigration topic today in our family. So I had enough for today of it For now just small remarks: talking with you about this made me decide to be more awareful of how I see people. Today in church we learned that our leadership decided to take a person from Iran in into church asylum (do you say this in english?). I am now thinking about if God wants me to support that financially, even if I have my points of critic and even if I find the whole approach some of those guys at church have to the topic a bit of naive and black and white (Our state: Bad. Refugees and imigrants: good. No between). I still do believe that especially the arab and middle eastern culture has some features that are not compatible with the european way of living and our culture, even to such an extend that it is for the sake of peace in our country not wishable to grant notable numbers of arabs and middle easterners permanent allowance to reside here. That might sound inhuman, maybe it is, but I can't see it another way. If God sees it different than may he forgive me and I hope of not loosing his love... but I just can't see it another way and the idea of continuing migraton from the middle east to our country worries me deeply. I think it is important for me though (I have the impression that God is telling me this these days in various ways) to watch out and not letting hatred against individual humans talking control of my thoughts and to watch out to keep my mind open.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 15:19:34 GMT -6
If God sees it different than may he forgive me and I hope of not loosing his love... Read Romans 8, bro. Nothing can separate us. I'm glad you've put some good thought into this. It is absolutely a good thing for you to pray that if you are wrong, God would change your mind.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Feb 17, 2019 16:25:43 GMT -6
I still do believe that especially the arab and middle eastern culture has some features that are not compatible with the european way of living and our culture, even to such an extend that it is for the sake of peace in our country not wishable to grant notable numbers of arabs and middle easterners permanent allowance to reside here. That might sound inhuman, maybe it is, but I can't see it another way. If God sees it different than may he forgive me and I hope of not loosing his love... but I just can't see it another way and the idea of continuing migraton from the middle east to our country worries me deeply. I think it is important for me though (I have the impression that God is telling me this these days in various ways) to watch out and not letting hatred against individual humans talking control of my thoughts and to watch out to keep my mind open. The media likes to cover what's bad more than what's good. I do not think all Arabic people accurately represent their government, terror groups or various sects, just like you or I aren't a perfect mirror to our government, terror groups and various sects. I've been paying attention to what Pope Francis has been doing/saying lately. Going into the heart of Islam and stating that "peace between religions is of utmost importance". He's not saying religions need to merge, but he is saying that they need to be at peace with each other. I like this idea. I know my comments on immigration have had a large emphasis on "legal" - but really, my annoyance/frustration is more than that. I think illegal immigration is very similar to "adverse possession" or "squatter's rights" in many ways. I do have an illegal immigrant story. This was back when I worked as a drug/alcohol counselor in an outpatient office. There was a young man, late teens, that came in because he got a DUI (driving under the influence)... and would risk deportation if he didn't finish our classes. I don't know how that worked - I guess someone illegal can't be deported just for being there illegally? I was just told he was illegal, and I didn't question that. He didn't have a drinking problem - he just had some drinks, fender bender, failed a breathalyzer - something that's all too common with DUIs I saw people come in with. I was quite friendly with him, and he with me. Even invited me to the restaurant where he worked for a meal, which I did take him up on. My point - his status had to do with what he wouldn't do to be legal.... not what he couldn't do. Basically, if I was going to sum up the illegal immigrant / squatter ideology in 1 phrase, it would be: "If your name isn't on it or you're not using it right now, its mine." I probably won't be able to shake the presumptuous, entitled, stealing, etc. vibes I'm getting, unless I'm provided with (or experience myself) another situation that shows me the thinking and reasoning is different than what I've seen.
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Post by anfauglith on Feb 19, 2019 10:53:19 GMT -6
The media likes to cover what's bad more than what's good. I do not think all Arabic people accurately represent their government, terror groups or various sects, just like you or I aren't a perfect mirror to our government, terror groups and various sects. It is not necessarily about governments there or certain islamic groups. Just as a few more harmless examples: in Germany and other western european countries it is part of everydays customs to now or then have a drink. Noone is forced to do so, but people enjoy it. In Germany there are even beer festivals etc. It is just a part of profane culture and tradition. Now the majority of believing muslims thinks that drinking alcohol is a sin and people who do so sin against their islamic God. It would not be a problem if they would simply not drink alcohol, as do lots of people for various reasons, but they declare it as something evil and people who do so are evildoers. The same goes for certain sorts of meat. People who eat pig meat... evil. Now especially the german kitchen has lots of pork meat dishes which are very popular (if you are not like me a vegetarian, or a seventh-day-adventist, or just don't like pork meat). Of course not every arab, turk or middle easterner agrees with this genereal teachings of islam. I think some of them don't care at all. But it is nevertheless in islams teachings. And in my oppinion this has quite potential for conflicts, because in my example cases (and other questions, like womens rights etc.) there are not just different oppinions, the two cultures have completely coflicting views. So I find it problematic to have people migrating here, who will have much more difficulties to integrate themselfs into our society. Because of that it is in my oppinion like I have said not wishable to grant to more than a small amount of middle easternes (or let's say: only to middle easternes who do match certain criteria) the right to permanently live here. I don't know. I think europeans do worry more about those kind of things because different then the US we have no history of larger waves of migration. Once again: I find it quite helpful to talk over that matter!
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Feb 22, 2019 7:43:23 GMT -6
It is not necessarily about governments there or certain islamic groups. Just as a few more harmless examples: in Germany and other western european countries it is part of everydays customs to now or then have a drink. Noone is forced to do so, but people enjoy it. In Germany there are even beer festivals etc. It is just a part of profane culture and tradition. Now the majority of believing muslims thinks that drinking alcohol is a sin and people who do so sin against their islamic God. It would not be a problem if they would simply not drink alcohol, as do lots of people for various reasons, but they declare it as something evil and people who do so are evildoers. The same goes for certain sorts of meat. People who eat pig meat... evil. Now especially the german kitchen has lots of pork meat dishes which are very popular (if you are not like me a vegetarian, or a seventh-day-adventist, or just don't like pork meat). I see your point. I personally see no sin regarding consuming beer/alcohol or pork... though as you mentioned, this is a commonality in the Islamic faith. (myself, consuming alcohol WOULD be a sin because of what it does to me.... but I definitely do not think that alcohol affects others the same way it has affected me) There is a difference between thinking something is wrong/sin personally, and enforcing this belief with others. If Arabic people entered your country and thought beer and pork were sins but left the German people alone to their own beliefs, then they just have their opinion and what they think is a non-issue. If they entered your country and reprimanded, condemned, "raised a stink" with anyone who drank or ate pork - therein lies a problem. In short, I think any potential damage would be from their intolerance/bigotry of those who don't share their opinion, rather than just their personal belief of beer and pork being wrong. I would not know what these people would do, without them (and their ideas) being present.
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Post by _ on Mar 4, 2019 0:33:50 GMT -6
I metaphorized (<-- that's a word, no need to look it up at all) some stuff that happened recently. If you feel so inclined, feel free to respond with anything you, being not inside my mind and knowing the real life circumstances, get from the story as it pertains to real life. The only other thing I'll say now is sometimes i used "i" and sometimes "we" -- that's not significant.
I know not how many dusks and how many dawns it has been since the Wolves of Woe leapt upon us in lupine lechery and hate. From the shadowed crags afoot the mountains they found us: my watch had faltered and by the cold moonlight the vulnerability of our camp was laid bare. I need not recount the terror we faced for it recounts itself in my dreams, and my heart cannot take a retelling of how my error nearly costed us our lives as we fled to the relative safety of Umbra’s Root, perpetual shadow beneath the mountain. Gúð-wine, my theroid companion and friend, has been greatly wounded and here we are, on my account, in the black underground. After we stepped out from under sky to beneath earth, some magic, luck, or Providence shut the way, barring entry from the great horde of Wolves pursuing us; and yet, some handful of the beasts leading the pack passed the threshold in time and disappeared from view, black hide lost in black dark. I daresay they shall attack as as soon as they regather their strength. I hear echoes of their snarls and laughter and careful, unyielding pursuit as we walk warily in the dark, hoping for a way out and peace from our Enemies.
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Post by jazzhead on Mar 4, 2019 23:30:57 GMT -6
I metaphorized (<-- that's a word, no need to look it up at all) some stuff that happened recently. If you feel so inclined, feel free to respond with anything you, being not inside my mind and knowing the real life circumstances, get from the story as it pertains to real life. The only other thing I'll say now is sometimes i used "i" and sometimes "we" -- that's not significant. So the watch needs to be strengthened. Maybe some extra weapons and manpower. You can't always watch for Wolves on your own and expect to succeed. Just sayin'. Wolves are viscious animals... They'll be back for sure, but a properly equipped watch will turn them away with little to no damage. Equip yourself...or selves as the case may be.
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Post by _ on Mar 9, 2019 22:43:44 GMT -6
What the hell am I doing?
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 10, 2019 8:24:36 GMT -6
What the hell am I doing? Aren't wolves in the woods bro? That's where they chase people. If you don't want to combat with wolves, don't go into the forest. :B Just like that barber that takes part of your ear when he does a haircut. Just don't go in there, problem solved. EDIT: A pertinent example for me. Alcohol (in bottles) = wolves I've *heard* of stories of people with drinking problems, working as bartenders. ...and then somehow, still able to work as a bartender without drinking. I am baffled enough by that to say that I doubt they had *that* much of a drinking problem to begin with. I was a die hard boozehound. No way could I pull off stocking liquor store shelves or bar-tending. Like a dog that has killed chickens, you can't put them in a hen house and properly convince them not to kill chickens. Too much temptation. Right in front of us...
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Post by _ on Mar 10, 2019 12:13:47 GMT -6
I tend to agree with I've *heard* of stories of people with drinking problems, working as bartenders. ...and then somehow, still able to work as a bartender without drinking. I am baffled enough by that to say that I doubt they had *that* much of a drinking problem to begin with. Yeah, I mean, avoiding temptation is essential. While sex addiction is distinct from porn addiction, it is just as easy to access, or, rather, just as difficult to avoid.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Mar 10, 2019 13:14:04 GMT -6
it is just as easy to access, or, rather, just as difficult to avoid Yeah... and no one can truly be completely removed from temptation/addiction. When I was drinking, I made a tongue-in-cheek remark (with some seriousness) that if I was chained to the water heater, I wouldn't drink anymore. Well, that's not much of a life and I'd drink as soon as I was unchained if nothing else changes. That happened about 7-8 times I went to jail for drinking shenanigans. I actually felt relieved to be incarcerated. I'm safe from booze in here. ...but it didn't matter if they held me 1 hour or 1 month, if nothing else changed within me, I'm back in the same mess I just got out of. Actually, it felt like my alcoholism was doing pushups while I was in jail, ready to kick my ass when I was released. Addiction just don't go away with time. It waits very patiently... ...but there's more to sobriety/abstinence than just staying away. That's one ingredient to the recipe, and its the recipe that works if we work it.
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Post by _ on Mar 25, 2019 20:20:42 GMT -6
What the hell am I doing? Ah, here again.
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Mar 26, 2019 9:24:40 GMT -6
Posting on a forum probably
Balancing things on your nose
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Post by _ on Mar 27, 2019 19:05:06 GMT -6
Posting on a forum probably sorta into that Balancing things on your nose never really got into that Yeah... and no one can truly be completely removed from temptation/addiction. When I was drinking, I made a tongue-in-cheek remark (with some seriousness) that if I was chained to the water heater, I wouldn't drink anymore. Well, that's not much of a life and I'd drink as soon as I was unchained if nothing else changes. That happened about 7-8 times I went to jail for drinking shenanigans. I actually felt relieved to be incarcerated. I'm safe from booze in here. ...but it didn't matter if they held me 1 hour or 1 month, if nothing else changed within me, I'm back in the same mess I just got out of. Actually, it felt like my alcoholism was doing pushups while I was in jail, ready to kick my ass when I was released. Addiction just don't go away with time. It waits very patiently... Yeah, I feel that. Like if I went to a monastery or even just the wilderness (Northern Canada tugs at my heart, for some reason) for a year plus and was abstinent, I would come back home and immediately relapse.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Apr 2, 2019 8:21:41 GMT -6
Yeah, I feel that. Like if I went to a monastery or even just the wilderness (Northern Canada tugs at my heart, for some reason) for a year plus and was abstinent, I would come back home and immediately relapse. Another recovery saying, one that's a bit circular... If nothing changes, then nothing changes. -_-
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Post by _ on May 1, 2019 17:58:02 GMT -6
Quintessential black metal song?
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on May 1, 2019 21:37:51 GMT -6
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Post by Borndead on May 2, 2019 10:31:58 GMT -6
Quintessential black metal song? hmmm maybe not the quintessential song, but shows a wide range of what BM can be, raw, symphonic, fast & emotional CS
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Post by _ on May 15, 2019 21:28:40 GMT -6
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Post by anfauglith on May 26, 2019 2:16:18 GMT -6
So what are you up to today? Over here it's sunday morning. No church service today, my church skipped it due to the yearly conference and following that no pastor available. The european votes are held today in germany, later on I have to go to a local place and help out there (also going to take the opportunity to vote there myself).
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on May 26, 2019 19:03:18 GMT -6
I did basically nothing all day today.
It was so humid and just, awful here today. I got a tiny bit of work done on a draft page for UA. That's about it, though.
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Post by jazzhead on May 27, 2019 7:43:02 GMT -6
So what are you up to today? Sunday I went to church in the morning (I play bass in the church band), then spent the day at the beach with my wife and 2 of our kids. The water is still to cold to swim, but it was nice to relax in the sun for a few hours. I'm thankful to have today off from work! I plan to do some yard work, get in a decent workout, and do a little bible study with a good cigar later this afternoon. I did basically nothing all day today. Sometimes that's a good thing. As a pretty introverted person, I find I get a bit of a recharge and better mindset from time spent doing absolutely nothing. Sadly it doesn't happen as often as I'd like. My wife doesn't get it. She's always going and always has a list with more stuff to do. We work it out though.
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Post by anfauglith on Jul 31, 2019 8:23:44 GMT -6
I wonder if anyone here can recommend a christian band, that sounds at least a bit like Gehenna on their "First Spell" album? I'd love that! The lyrics needn't to be exactly worship style, they may as well be cryptic, mysterious, personal, whatever, as far as I care. (In fact in my oppinion the lyrics on "First spell" are not really "satanic" or "occult", just like... scary, dark, such. Images from a horror movie or a ghost story. But I think some of the band members had weird views or where satanists back then. So I'd prefer to listen to something without all this bla bla.).
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Jul 31, 2019 10:58:53 GMT -6
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Post by anfauglith on Aug 1, 2019 9:35:51 GMT -6
Thanks for your recommendations! I think I like "From Ashes" best of the stuff. Is there an album up somewhere?
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Post by anfauglith on Aug 1, 2019 9:52:44 GMT -6
Another random question: is Reverorum ib malacht really a christian music project? There seem to be some (online) magazines etc. who write, that it is all just "show" for the sake of provocation. I hope it's not, because I find this project quite unique.
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