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Post by exo on Aug 11, 2017 19:37:10 GMT -6
Pretty sure most of us already follow the guys on some form of social media, but AHTDU announced a new album entitled Via Artis Via Morris, due out 9/15.
They also posted a new track off the forthcoming album...
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Post by kimmo on Aug 12, 2017 0:57:28 GMT -6
Sounds good, the track is also on Spotify:
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Post by barabbas on Aug 12, 2017 21:50:09 GMT -6
I hadn't heard yet. Thanks for posting this. I'm looking forward to it, though I think I still like their first album best.
Sept. 15 will be a good day for metal. AHTDU and Fleshkiller!
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Post by drawnsword on Aug 13, 2017 1:27:29 GMT -6
Thanks for posting. I hadn't heard yet either. I wonder if Bombworks Records will be releasing it?
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Post by barabbas on Aug 13, 2017 9:08:15 GMT -6
No, it's going to be on Luxor Records. Broken Flesh's current label.
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Post by Borndead on Aug 16, 2017 4:49:25 GMT -6
Finally checked it out on my home system, sounds really good & you can taste the Behemoth influence. Definitely have very high expectations of this album.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 21, 2017 11:39:27 GMT -6
I'm the odd man out here. I'm not impressed.
Yes its well produced (perhaps a bit TOO well produced) and the riffs/songwriting is ok. Love the vocals. I got more of a (newer) Dimmu Borgir vibe than a Behemoth vibe, with the guitars in particular.
I heard a drum fill or two that was pleasantly massive - but I'm shaking my head at the actual drumming. ....but that's my main gripe with Christian (black) metal.
No one ops for speed or fury. Everyone ops for the drums doing a friendly stroll through the track, like they've been listening to more doom than black metal, or they're playing it safe or something... which is boring as hell.
Black metal with NO speed or fury in the percussion department, to me is like putting an unseasoned steak on the grill. Sorry. I'm more impressed with the lofi CBM I've been hearing lately.
Production < The drums NOT being a snooze-fest
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Aug 21, 2017 13:34:25 GMT -6
No one ops for speed or fury. Everyone ops for the drums doing a friendly stroll through the track, like they've been listening to more doom than black metal, or they're playing it safe or something... which is boring as hell. I didn't really have a problem with that here, but ...... now that I think about it, if I were to listen to a whole album of material at this pace, I would get bored, definitely. Hopefully the other tracks are faster.
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Post by exo on Aug 21, 2017 16:40:59 GMT -6
Well, Hill hasn't ever been purely blackmetal, they've always played a mid paced amalgamation of death and black metal. Wrong band to be looking to for "speed and fury".....
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 21, 2017 17:13:36 GMT -6
Wrong band to be looking to for "speed and fury"..... Wrong band past "Infinite Titanic Immortal" at least. The blasting and blistering drums worked so well on that album that they decided to quit doing them apparently.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 21, 2017 18:07:36 GMT -6
....but that's my main gripe with Christian (black) metal. AHTDU was the catalyst for my rant, but really - its just another claw at the existing scar. One side says Christian black metal doesn't exist and gives it thumbs down without even listening to it. The other side likes "unblack metal" not "Christian black metal", and gives it a thumbs down if it's not in the "international clique" (Horde, Antestor, Crimson Moonlight) or it doesn't follow the medium paced / music box synth laden "unblack" formula. ....so in metal and Christian metal, Orationem is an outcast on both sides. What's crazy to me - I've gotten about 10 times as much feedback about Orationem in general on a Discord game server, than I have from the Christian metal scene, outside this forum. POSITIVE feedback too. The people there listen to dubstep and anime-music-whatever-stuff, and will STILL play Orationem songs in the music channel when I'm not even there / logged on. It's CRAZY!!!! If it weren't for Vision of God Records, this forum and a handful of other people in Christian metal, I'd have no interest whatsoever in CBM or Unblack metal or whatever the hell it's supposed to be called...
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Post by exo on Aug 21, 2017 18:16:29 GMT -6
And the REALLY ironic thing about your last post is that AHTDU is embraced in the Christian scene, yet is far, far less explicitly Christian, could not care less about the label, and open their FB bio with a Crowley quote.....
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 21, 2017 18:42:23 GMT -6
AHTDU is embraced in the Christian scene, yet is far, far less explicitly Christian, could not care less about the label, and open their FB bio with a Crowley quote.... Not only that, but thumbing through YouTube comments, even black metal purists/elitists commended AHTDU, ala "who knew Christian metal could sound this good". To me, there's no irony though. The differences between Orationem and AHTDU are blatant, and that difference has already been stated... Well, Hill hasn't ever been purely blackmetal
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Post by nocturnaliridescence on Aug 21, 2017 20:51:16 GMT -6
The people there listen to dubstep and anime-music-whatever-stuff Well, so do I. I know CW likes anime music as well, not sure about dubstep, but I know he likes tons of different music like I do. Strange though, that Orationem would be so popular among people with extremely varied musical tastes, when Orationem isn't really that "experimental" in the grand scheme of things. It definitely seems like the kind of project "black metal purists" would like, and "black metal purists" and I RARELY agree on stuff. Like I've never even been that into Antestor or Crimson Moonlight, much less AHTDU who seem to get borderline universal praise. I mean, none of the "popular" CBM projects are bad, but they all just lack "something" that I like in music. And for some reason, Orationem has that indescribable "something", so I'm more open to listening to it. I dunno, maybe you can take ^ what I said above and work with it somehow? Maybe it's just a matter of finding the right market to tap into?
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Post by exo on Aug 21, 2017 21:47:14 GMT -6
A lot of the difference in terms o popularity and praise is the fact that AHTDU has a much more "accessible" sound. The more "blackened" the blackmetal is, the more niche it becomes, and Orationem is simply a tougher listen for the average human being. It's honestly that simple.
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Post by barabbas on Aug 21, 2017 22:07:02 GMT -6
As one of my family members says: "there's no accounting for taste."
I think probably people give different weights to which aspects mark a genre. Personally, I feel like vocal style is more important than blastbeats for being a characteristic of black metal. In my own view (probably wrong since I have much less experience that you all) Thomas' vocals for Orationem aren't paradigmatic black metal vocals.
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Post by kimmo on Aug 22, 2017 1:10:46 GMT -6
I dont care about the scenes, what matters to me is the music and the aesthetics and the lyrics. Music is the top priority and lyrics as well, though it really depends on the artist and how the whole thing comes together.
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Post by kimmo on Aug 22, 2017 1:20:26 GMT -6
About the lyrics; I love well-written lyrics. On the other hand, good slogans work well too, it really depends on the context. AHTDU is probably one of my favourite bands lyrically but I also like the sarcastic cynicism in the lyrics of the latest MGLA -album. The words dont have to be in line with my beliefs but I have to admit I can relate best to a more "seasoned" christian approach or sort of existentialist approach that I find in the swedish band GRIFT. But then again, it really depends.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 22, 2017 1:36:32 GMT -6
A lot of the difference in terms o popularity and praise is the fact that AHTDU has a much more "accessible" sound. The more "blackened" the blackmetal is, the more niche it becomes, and Orationem is simply a tougher listen for the average human being. It's honestly that simple. I 100% agree, and regarding Orationem, that "tough listen" is intentional. (because what's tough for them, is just right for me, and what's just right for them is mush to me) My frustration has more with being "recognized" and "associated with" than being "liked" or "accepted". If a laymen (someone not familiar with anything, a blank slate), looked over my shoulder and saw Orationem content. They would think it was a project that gamers like. ...not something that "Christian metal fans" like. The only clue they're even related is lyrical content. All in all, it goes right back to this... If it weren't for Vision of God Records, this forum and a handful of other people in Christian metal, I'd have no interest whatsoever in CBM or Unblack metal or whatever the hell it's supposed to be called...
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 22, 2017 1:54:38 GMT -6
In my own view (probably wrong since I have much less experience that you all) Thomas' vocals for Orationem aren't paradigmatic black metal vocals. Worked for Mortuus of Marduk and Funeral Mist. I'll honestly admit, I can't help but emulate him and what you're hearing is me doing my damnedest. See, if the secular scene could just get past the "black metal can't be Christian" and would actually LISTEN - they'd love it. What I make actually sounds like they're music. Meanwhile, I'm saddened that the other side of the fence in that if it doesn't sound like Antestor, its borderline unrecognizable as black metal to Christians.
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Post by exo on Aug 22, 2017 5:11:59 GMT -6
I'm personally of the opinion that the CBM scene (and the "Christian METAL scene outside of metalcore) is far smaller than we'd like to believe. the interactions we have on the net aren't really an accurate reflection of things, but more of a funhouse mirror distortion of reality. The good old "facebook like", while ultimately meaningless in terms of financial or critical success is still an indicator of popularity. Behemoth has almost TWO MILLION. AHTDU barely over 8k, and a hundred or so of those are from the last few weeks amidst the plagiarism controversy the were the victim of. Agalloch has 153k, Vials of Wrath less than 3k. We're just the very definition of niche and obscure......
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2017 6:38:54 GMT -6
I know CW likes anime music as well, not sure about dubstep, but I know he likes tons of different music like I do. Yeah I like some EDM. Lately I've been liking it more than I did in the past. I'm not particularly fond of AHTDU's music either and that's why I don't own any of their releases. I think there's a lot of truth in Exo's statement regarding the size of our scene. I think the reason why everything seems to get compared to Horde, Antestor, CM, etc. is because those really are the most popular bands in the history of our scene and they're the CBM bands that Christian metal fans who don't know much about CBM are aware of. I think Thomas said something like this in another thread: if Antestor is the only black metal band someone has heard, all black metal will sound "like Antestor" to them. Edit: Oh look at that, I started three sentences in a row with "I think." Oh well, I'll just leave it lol.
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Post by barabbas on Aug 22, 2017 9:51:49 GMT -6
Meanwhile, I'm saddened that the other side of the fence in that if it doesn't sound like Antestor, its borderline unrecognizable as black metal to Christians. I admit your point, and it's a problem. Though again, there's so much music out there, many things are fairly niche. (I've been exploring no wave lately. Are there any Christian no wave bands?) My point was more that criteria for what counts as a clear member of the genre differ. I've been enjoying a lot of the slower and mid-paced stuff lately (Quest for Serenity, Winter's Dawn, Eulogium, Xasthur, Elysian Blaze, and even (gasp!) early Burzum). I haven't felt like I was missing out in the absence of blastbeats, but I still think that stuff is black metal. AHTDU has always been more of a death/black hybrid.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 22, 2017 16:49:52 GMT -6
I think Thomas said something like this in another thread: if Antestor is the only black metal band someone has heard, all black metal will sould "like Antestor" to them. This thread. nordicfest.no/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15288#p483718CanadianMetalFan said the 3rd Orationem "reminded him of old Antestor". I held my tongue (for once in my life [rofl] ) and didn't say to him - " Pure Peace and Joy, Love and Kindness sounds NOTHING like old Antestor...." but that's where the thought came in, to someone who doesn't listen to black metal, and Antestor is the only black metal they're familiar with, well then, yes. I could see the comparison. One step further, my mother compares Orationem to Mortification - well, if that's the only Christian "heavy metal" known to compare with, I completely understand the comparison. I'll elaborate more on that as to why that's a problem. barabbas, I didn't mean to single you out friend. All my ranting is not because of any one person. I'm personally of the opinion that the CBM scene (and the "Christian METAL scene outside of metalcore) is far smaller than we'd like to believe. the interactions we have on the net aren't really an accurate reflection of things, but more of a funhouse mirror distortion of reality. The good old "facebook like", while ultimately meaningless in terms of financial or critical success is still an indicator of popularity. Behemoth has almost TWO MILLION. AHTDU barely over 8k, and a hundred or so of those are from the last few weeks amidst the plagiarism controversy the were the victim of. Agalloch has 153k, Vials of Wrath less than 3k. We're just the very definition of niche and obscure...... I would say Orationem is a niche within a niche within a niche. 3 layers deep, while the majority of the other "unblack metal" projects is 2 layers. Allow me to explain. The black metal genre is a niche. Easy to cope with because its lots of good music, who cares if its not on the playlist of the average joe. Christian black metal, is a niche within a niche. Only people who are in the first niche, who are also Christian or accept Christian themes in this genre of music, will like/approve/support/etc. The harsh reality, very few people who aren't Christian accept black metal as Christian. Not as easy to cope with, but between passion for God and black metal, its certainly "cope-able". Orationem is a niche within a niche within a niche. While there is no "technical" difference in unblack vs black metal music, aesthetically, NOW, the difference is HUGE. MASSIVE. Unbelievably different. Like comparing 80's rock to 00's rock. My music, has a very prominent "secular sound". To me, its apparent that the influences of "unblack" projects are either other unblack projects, or black metal they heard 10-15 years ago before they obtained their faith. I'm drawing this conclusion based on the differences I've heard of Christian black metal, and secular black metal NOW. (in the last 5 years) The virtue with Christian black metal bands and listeners avoiding secular black metal for personal reasons also creates a vice. All the changes that have happened in the secular black metal sound the past (lets call it) 5 years are either undiscovered or unliked by many CBM's currently. Regarding just the sound and presentation ONLY - In the Christian black metal scene, Orationem sticks out like a sore thumb. ...but in the secular scene, Orationem would fit in the same "pool" as signed bands like Dark Funeral, Der Weg Einer Freiheit, Setherial, Malfeitor, In Battle, 1349, Naglfar, Endstille, Asmodeus, Sacramentum, Vinterland.... Just say the word, I'll keep listing bands. There are Orationem fans. I'm obviously the biggest one. I'm not defining "fan" as "buys an album" or "likes a video", but as someone who has actually interacted with me, via at least several email chains, indicating their interest in my music. We'd only need one hand to count the total... EVERY SINGLE FAN either regularly listens to secular black metal, or has listened to plenty of it fairly recently. ALL OF THEM. The fact that my music is getting playtime, feedback and recognition on a chat server dedicated to a mobile game is a pleasant surprise... but likewise, its like someone who never bakes, baking the best pie out of a room full of bakers, who are SUPPOSED to specialized in that sort of thing. Happy judge, pissed off kitchen manager kind of thing. ....and I go back and forth between feeling like a judge, and a kitchen manager. This, coupled with the apparent lack of interest of "unblack metal projects" - I mean, I'm not special here, and 5 full length releases + in 2 years amid doing everything myself and fighting cancer, yet its only me and Elgibbor that publish new music in this scene more than twice in 10 years. Coupled with Christian black metal collectors/listeners/fans seeing Orationem as an oddity because they've avoided secular black metal to the point, its debatable they should even be considered as even LIKING what most of the world would consider as "contemporary" black metal.... THIS. All of this 3 layers deep shit, I am not coping with well, at all. My best days, I don't think about it. My worst days, I want to drain the swamp. When bands and patrons are 100% personal (preservation and preference) 0% teamwork/FOR someone else, this swamp is becoming a puddle. When a completely unrelated "scene" (in genre and execution - ie: Discord for Ire: Blood Memory) offers MORE FEEDBACK AND SUPPORT than the actual "scene" Orationem was created for, then the kid that dumped a gallon of water outside just smoked this puddle. I'm really sorry. I'm not singling any one person out, its a big picture problem. Its not any one person's responsibility either, which all the more fuels that feeling that it's me and 4 other people are the only ones in the entire world that are actually accomplishing ANYTHING here. I'm also really sorry to say that what is known as Christian black metal now, sucks. It blows. Sad, but true.
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Post by Borndead on Aug 22, 2017 17:24:54 GMT -6
This here, I agree so much with. the influences of "unblack" projects are either other unblack projects, or black metal they heard 10-15 years ag Considering myself someone who´s very deep into black metal of all sorts; I in all honestly don´t like a lot of "CBM" mainly because I don´t like "a lot" of secular ones, (as has been said) they imitate the hell out of each other without offering something that goes deeper. While the secular extreme scene is blossoming like crazy, bands like Mgla, Outre, Emptiness, Dødsengel, Schammasch... all can be labeled BM but there´s something unique in each of them. We´re are a very small "scene" so, it´s no surprise that we´re not offering as much diversity, but still to have 20-30 bands that record their guitar/vocals with a phone and put on some abyssmal bad drum samples together in 5 minutes and call it a song is just sad. Thank God for the few bands that are doing something that can stand the test of time and even outshine secular bands (name dropping: Vials of wrath, A hill.., Skald - in veum, Drottnar, Elgibbor etc.) I don´t want to self-promote in a other bands thread but, with my project Synkretismos Mutare (experimental/dark ambient) I´ve created something that´s not really offered in the secular scene. I´ve tried to push borders with the sound and kept THE Message in there. That´s what I hope and expect from our "scene".. to put themselfs deep into the music they create and give us something special.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 22, 2017 17:51:49 GMT -6
I think I should clarify something. The personal preferences with music thing, I know is my bias. I'm having a hard time not being vocal about what I like in music... Please forgive that disagreement. Its not personal. Also, this ominous "them" I'm referring to... Not you guys. Of course you guys recognize and support Christian black metal. You're here, aren't you? The main field where I see what I mentioned in my rant, YouTube comments. I've had my share to my... but there's a lot of statements on a lot of other videos, that is more of the catalyst. Apologies again if I sounded like I was "calling out" any one person or this forum as a whole. Never was my intention, not what I meant.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 22, 2017 18:06:38 GMT -6
Thank God for the few bands that are doing something that can stand the test of time and even outshine secular bands (name dropping: Vials of wrath, A hill.., Skald - in veum, Drottnar, Elgibbor etc.) Hazeroth is mindblowingly good Christian black metal and one hell of an exception. I don´t want to self-promote in a other bands thread but, with my project Synkretismos Mutare (experimental/dark ambient) I´ve created something that´s not really offered in the secular scene. I´ve tried to push borders with the sound and kept THE Message in there. That´s what I hope and expect from our "scene".. to put themselfs deep into the music they create and give us something special. Very good!
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Post by barabbas on Aug 24, 2017 23:41:49 GMT -6
Thomas, I didn't feel singled out. Thanks. Just trying to be as clear as possible.
My thoughts go in several different directions about this, but perhaps it's best that we've moved some of the discussion over to the prayer requests. That seems appropriate.
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Post by Thomas Eversole on Aug 25, 2017 8:12:29 GMT -6
The worst at derailing threads is the admin himself. What are you guys going to do with me. XD I didn't really have a problem with that here, but ...... now that I think about it, if I were to listen to a whole album of material at this pace, I would get bored, definitely. Hopefully the other tracks are faster. If half the tracks on the album are fast, this would be a FANTASTIC album I would definitely want to listen to.
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Post by Deepfriar on Sept 16, 2017 23:32:57 GMT -6
This got pushed back to Friday, Sept. 29th due to a merger among the companies involved in the manufacturing and/or distribution. Adam put a video up on the AHTDU Facebook a few days ago. Guess we are waiting a little longer.
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